Why do CONS talk about 'undocumented' immigrants?

Question

Isn't that hypocritical.... As far s the records go, most immigrants pay tax, have driving licences, pay healthcare insurance, have children in schools..... so what does 'undocumented' mean.

I suppose they are OK when you get you lawn cut for half the price, right cons?

Answer 1

On this issue, as with only a few others, I have to respectfully disagree with you, Humanist. I don’t for one believe that illegal immigrants do pay their fair share of income taxes, since most have no incentive to. Most have professions that allow them to get paid in cash, and therefore, like most waitresses with their tips, either fail to report their earnings, or underreport their income.

As a child of Indian parents that immigrated here in the 1970s, using all legal procedures, the current push to give amnesty and full entitlement as citizens to illegal immigrants, is a spit in the face to my parents and other millions of immigrants who went through all the proper channels, with all its cumbersome bureaucratic red tape, to get in this country.

No one is contesting that the vast majority of these people are hard workers, and an essential part of our economic vitality, but to give them full equality in employment and educational opportunities, as those immigrants who went through the arduous process of doing it by the book, subverts our legal system and is patently unfair.

I am not proposing unrealistic nonsense solutions like many right-wingers, who want massive deportation initiatives and insurmountable walls to be erected around our nation. These actions are patently impractical and cruel. What I am proposing is some sort of penalty for those immigrants who did not go through legal means to enter this country. These penalties should include that they and their immediate offspring be precluded from obtaining certain jobs of a certain pay scale, and they should be barred from access to higher forms of education for at least one generation, and a comprehension of rudimentary English should be compulsory after two or three years in this country to vie for higher employment and the owning of property. Fines should also be levied at employers and educators who don’t follow this restriction on banning illegals from certain jobs and their first generation offspring from higher education, to where it would be cost prohibitive to do so. At least these types of consequences, which I have briefly sketched, may force future aspiring intruders into our country to try going about doing things the right way, and also honor immigrants, like my parents, who entered this country through the means prescribed.

What made this country great, and why we frequently attribute our strength to immigrants of past generations, especially those who came in the late 19th and early 20th century, through Ellis Island, was that those immigrants came to America to be Americans, and not still be Italian, Irish, or Polish. They conformed to American ways, and the English language. Yes they still preserved the identity and cultural practices of their homeland, but the idea of being a citizen of the United States and an English speaker took primacy over their ethnic identity. The citizens of this country did not have to conform to their mores and values, instead these immigrants were more than happy to conform to ours.

Latin American immigrants throughout most of the last century were like that, but politically correct forces, and those hell bent on getting cheap labor, have thwarted the need for immigrants to fully integrate in the melting pot. Thus they have allowed many Latin American immigrants to create ghettos – little microcosms of Latin America – replete with people who only know Spanish, and who bring the corruption, that is endemic to Latin America, to the US. This has to stop. Latin Americans must drop the Latin part of their identity, and become just plain citizens of the United States. Once this happens, the xenophobia will end and then the word immigrant will no longer have a negative connotation.

Answer 2

As you well know, Humanist, undocumented immigrants means they are in the country illegally, not on visas, etc. Your question is simply sarcastic, and doesn't advance any meaningful dialogue.

I've never been a big fan of your questions, anyway, and this pretty much is consistent with my previous experiences.

We all have papers in our possession--all the way from the receipt at Walmart, the cashier's check copy, etc. Toilet paper. If you want to call that "documentation" on behalf of the immigrants........then, yes, they are documented. And still freakin' illegal nonetheless.

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but the cost of illegal aliens--all summed up with both their contributions included and their expenses taken out--is over $30 billion annually. Paid for compliments of the american taxpayer. Do you live in the US or ENgland? (Thought I remembered from earlier posts someone saying you were English? Is that correct or am I mistaken in memory?)

I agree with you that some businesses take advantage of the opportunity to exploit illegal workers. Of course--the illegal immigrants also have full rights to say 'no' and not take the work. After all, this is America--I Dont recall anyone holding a gun to their head to force them to come to america and mow lawns.

And I do believe that any american employer who knowingly hires an illegal immigrant and isn't in compliance with our labor laws should be prosecuted.

Answer 3

The whole issue of illegal immigration was brought up by Bush's administration to divert public's attention away from other more issues where he has vested interest.

Immigrants, as a group, is a perfect scapegoat. They don't fight back. You can blame just about anything on them. Healthcare crisis? Illegals. Terrorism? Illegals and open borders. Budget deficit? It's surely not the stupid war or senseless taxcuts, it's...illegals. Education is not worthy of stone age? Illegals. Crime? ... Gas prices? ... Trade deficit? ... Social security shortfall? ... National debt?... Jobs moving to China? ... Idiots who disagree with the only possibly correct position this administration has? ... Hurricanes? Certanly illegals and their immoral ways that brought wrath of our Proper God.

You can go on and on...

Now, illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be addressed, but don't you think there are far more important and pressing issues that would have drastically more impact?

Answer 4

There is no such thing as undocumented immigrants. THEY ARE ILLEGALS!!!. Anyway you say it they are illegal which means they are breaking the law.
* If illegals (not all but alot) are working under the table they are NOT having taxes taken out of their paycheck.
* Illegals do NOT cut my grass. Never have. No-one in my family has illegals cutting their grass.
* Many many illegals flood the E.R's for all their medical needs b/c they don't have health insurance (b/c they are illegal)

Answer 5

We never said immigrants don't pay taxes or all those other things you mentioned. we also don't have a probelm with immigrants who come to this country. But we do have a problem with undocumented (ILLEGAL) immigrants. And if any of these ILLEGAL immigrants are paying taxes and have a driver's license, then they are doing it ILLEGALLY. How is that possible? Because they are ILLEGAL immigrants. Learn the difference.

Answer 6

Not it's not alright. Arizona has the toughest employer laws right now and it's only the begining.

Tommorrow a House Bill attached to the judicail Apropriations Bill will include a zero tolerance for entering the country like they have in a city in Western Texas.

Nothing you have stated is a defense in court anymore than it would be for me to avoid prosecution.

Answer 7

Let me get this straight: we have laws in our country to protect us, right. If I disobey the law I have to face some form of punishment, right. If I go to Mexico without proper papers I can be deported, right. If I go to another country without proper papers I can be deported, right. If another country was overun with people who do not have the country's permission they could be in trouble, right. Didn't the Chinese build this huge wall to keep out people to protect China, right. Didn't have Ancient Rome have problems of foreign tribes invading their borders, right. Isn't is true that all countries have rules and regulations for entering their country either temporarily or permanently, right.

The idea of documenting visitors from other countries is not a recent inovation, right.

So why shouldn't these particular immigrants also be required to have proper documents, right?

I underdtand your point about the taxes but to what extent to they pay taxes. I know a lot of them do pay taxes and work hard to take care of their family. But I also know that a lot of these people are paid in cash so no taxes, but yet they want all the amenities that the taxpayers have. Now, this I don't believe is right. It sends a message to others that if you want a free ride, come to America.

All us "Cons" want is for them to enter legally. And if they want they can become citizens of the US. I live in the South West and see these people everyday working their butts off for god knows what pay. I have a lot of respect for the work they do and how much they add to our communities. But open borders over a period of time leads to an influx of all types of people that may not be desired. We have the right to pick and chose who we want in our country, all countries do.

You want to come to the US get documented. Is that really so much to ask for. There are countless people from other countries that wait years to enter our country. What type of message does our open borders for some people send to those that are doing legally.

I will be the first to admit that the barn door has already been opened. I don't know how to solve the problem either. It is a very complex issue and should have been handled years ago. When I lived in California many years ago they talked about this problem and nothing was done. The genie is out of the bottle and no one knows how to put him back in.

I hope I was able to get you to see our point of view.

Answer 8

It means they are here ILLEGALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

They may pay sales tax, but they are not paying income tax unless they stole someone's Social Security number, which is yet another law they have broken.

Ever been to an ER in the Southwest. Most of the people in them are illegal and they do not have insurance. Why do you think they are in such a cash crunch?

They sure don't get driving licenses in Arizona where I am unless they are forged which is yet another law they have broken.

I cut my own lawn.

And it is not only conservatives who want illegals out. I am a liberal to moderat Democrat and I want them out.

Answer 9

to most people illegal means some law was broken... so the use of the term undocumented rather than criminals or illegals is prefered by those who want us to become a nation not of laws and Christian morals but if it feels good do it

Answer 10

To answer your question, I've cut my own lawn since I was 8 years old. That's 45 years without hiring an illegal alien.

Good luck, I hope this helped.