Roman Catholics: Where do 'other' Christians go then according to Pope Benedict XVI?

Question

The new document -- formulated as five questions and answers -- restates key sections of a 2000 text the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which riled Protestant, Lutheran and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation." - Foxnews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288841,00.html

He apparently didn't like Limbo, so where do we go according to him?

spiritroaming,
Then what? Why is the Pope acting like the Devil?

cristoiglesia,
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

There is nothing about believing in a church in that statement.

Effettoll,
I am not a Fundie.

Answer 1

As I wrote earlier...

The Pope told me that my Church is not a Church and therefore is not valid. My beliefs therefore are also not valid even though they come directly and literally from Scripture. Scripture therefore can not be valid either according to the Pope. If scripture is not valid neither is the Roman Church.

Ratzingers Zinger came back and bit him in the a**.

Mark

_______________________________

Above was tongue in cheek, but it's an example how human reason can interfere and even contradict the Gospel. Likewise, this is exactly what has happened in the Roman Church with traditions, and reason (even in the Light of Scripture).

Regardless what his Holiness, or the Roman Church says, I will take the Bible's teaching ahead of theirs every time. As humans we can Justify everything through reason, Yet we ourselves are justified through Faith.

I know that our Sacraments are valid. The Bible is clear on this. Likewise the Roman Sacraments are valid also.

Our Lutheran Confessions state that Word and Sacrament remain efficacious, even when administered by evil men. Very few Catholic Priests are evil men.

The Pope and the Catholic Church can write and Say what they want. God still loves us all regardless of what we say and do. We should take Gods example and "love our neighbors as our selves".

Mark

Answer 2

The words "means of salvation" are not found in the document that is being quoted. However the following is:

12. Finally, it must also be borne in mind that the expression sister Churches in the proper sense, as attested by the common Tradition of East and West, may only be used for those ecclesial communities that have preserved a valid Episcopate and Eucharist.

This is where the pope is saying that unless the Christians are members of the catholic church or follow the teachings of the Episcopate and Eucharist, then they are not true churches. Basically the catholic church is the only one that believes, incorrectly I might add, that they can trace their "popes" or Bishops back to Peter. That is the meaning of the Episcopate. So if you don't believe this, you are not a christian or a "sister church". In a round about way, the pope is stating that if you are not a christian, you are not saved, so according to him, you will go to hell.

Of course, the pope is a false teacher. Peter was not the first Pope, and the catholic church cannot trace the papacy any further back than AD 606. There are many problems with the papacy that they choose to ignore. Did you know that, after the papacy was introduced, there was a period of seventy years in which there was no pope at all? Did you know that for another period of fifty years there were two lines of popes? And did you know that at one time there were three popes? They were Benedict XIII, Gregory XII, the French pope, and John XXIII, the Italian pope. Where does all this leave papal lineage and infallibility?

Let the pope continue with his false teachings. The Bible teaches the way of salvation and it is not through the catholic church.

Answer 3

Pastor Billy says: Lord why don't people actually read the document which is not about salvation or who receives it from God alone.


a Roman Catholic.


The real questions non-Catholics should be questioning themselves about is, How many Churches did Jesus created?


addendum: prior to the last two days covering what this topic pretends to be about I've never seen lazy and ignorant non-Catholics make so many misinformed comments before.
READ a first source and NOT the news media spin doctor news clips.

Just read the added comments and............ when you quote from the NT you are quoting from a Roman Catholic canon of scirpture. The Christian bible is in reality a Catholic book, without the Church there is no written record. The Church is an instrument of God by which we are instructed of salvation. Why do you think the new fad among a broad range of Protestants is to call themselves Evangelical? It is because they also understand what Baptist's like to call "the great commission" and what the Catholic Church claims to be is also true for them that being the Christian community of believers is the salt of the earth which brings God's message of salvation to the rest of the world.

Claiming to have the bible is not enough for it is precisely because of the Church, (the Catholic Church that is) that you have the bible OT and NT.

Answer 4

for sure this guy is the two an rather ignorant Catholic, or a pretend Catholic. For starters an "AntiPope" is an "unofficial elected" person who's claiming to be the Pope. the guy could ought to have been elected with the aid of the lay dedicated, or elected with the aid of Cardinals that broke far off from the Church and now no longer comprehend the real successor of St. Peter as being the Pope. Pope Benedict XVI became into "formally elected" with the aid of a conclave of Cardinals to be the subsequent Pope, so there is not any way he ought to be an "AntiPope". 2nd the Church is "extensive-unfold" wherein she desires the unification of all of God's peoples inclusive of Muslims, Jews, Christians, Pagans, Buddhists, etc. A "heresy" is while somebody chooses to have faith there very own truths rather of the actuality of the Church. So how is loving your friends a "heresy" while Christ Jesus commanded this in Scripture?

Answer 5

Why would you assume that the Pope thinks you'll go somewhere different than we Catholics? There is only one Heaven.

And the Pope clearly said that these ecclesial communities, or churches if you prefer, do have importance and play a part in God's plan of salvation.

Of course, it makes sense, considering that all the truth they have was taken from the Catholic Church in the first place.

Answer 6

Simple!

Without the Church all go to hell. With the Church some go to heaven.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Tuberoot,

You are taking the verse completely out of context. The truth is that Jesus did create a Church for the purpose of providing salvation to the world with specific instructions such as if you do not drink the Blood and eat the Body of our Lord there is no life in you.

The Church are those gathered around the bishop as St. Ignatius, the disciple of St. Peter and St. John and third bishop of Antioch said. It is the Church that provides the sacraments so that the faithful can endure in faith by receiving the grace from God. Why would one knowingly not recieve the gifts of our Lord or try to endure in the faith to final salvation without God's grace? There is the question also, how can one truly believe and yet reject His Church? No other ecclesiastical groups have the authority of our Lord to minister the Sacraments to the faithful except the Catholic Church. (as defined by St. Ignatius) May the Lord have mercy.

Answer 7

"Eccesial communities" are "channels of salvation" in RC theology. Where are you getting that RC theology thinks that they are not?
You have not read the original text,have you?
Orthodox and Old Catholic Churches are ecclesiae verae or "true churches" because they have apostoloic succession and real"sacramental-self understanding'.

Father,Son & Holy Ghost Water Baptism is considered entrance into the Church and Body of Christ no matter who administers it with a basic Christian understanding and as such all Protestant Trinitarian Baptisms are recognized not only as channels of grace but as valid and equal Baptisms to ours. Protestant Eucharists are invalid but can be great channels of grace to those properly disposed. The Marriage of 2 Baptized Protestants with the right disposition is as much a sacrament as that of 2 Catholics.

A Protestant who dies in the state of grace will end up in the same Heaven that a catholic who so dies does,-and both will probably have to be purged by the grace of Christ a bit before that

Answer 8

Heaven.

Here is the full text of the new document that states nothing new: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

Most Christian denominations believe that each of them is the fullest version of the Church of Christ.

While the Catholic Church also believes that she is "the highest exemplar" of the mystery that is the Church of Christ, she does not claim that non-Catholic Churches are not truly Christian. The Catholic Church teaches:

Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.

Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.

All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him.

For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 819: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm#819

With love in Christ.

Answer 9

I swear, if I see one more ignorant question from someone who never even bothered to read what he actually said instead of the faux media....



The document actually reiterates that "these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church."

Answer 10

Why don't you actually READ the document. In particular, pay attention to the second question, third paragraph of the answer, first sentence.

It's never wise to let the media think for you. Get your facts straight.