I don't listen to people that worship idols.
2007-07-11 07:06:29
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answer #1
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answered by Anonymous
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I just read the actual statements given by the Pope of Rome. They do not proclaim that the Catholic Church is the only place whereby God grants individuals salvation. He only proclaims, and I quote
"... the Catholic Church has the fullness of the means of salvation..."
This does not say that salvation is not to be found in other Churches. It only says that other Churches lack some of the means of salvation.
So defective could be a proper term, depending on how it is used.
What I think of this, well, I think the Pope is right. That is what the Catholic Church believes, and so help me, the Protestant churches, and members of them, have no say in the matter. Neither do I, as an Orthodox Christian, have a right to dictate what the beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church are. I can live with the fact that they do not consider my Church to be the Church Christ started. The Orthodox certain hold an even stricter view than the Catholics on this issue. (Although, we make no statement regarding who definitely is saved or damned, but proclaim, as the Catholics claim of their church, that "the fullness of the means of salvation" exists in our Church. I hear it more often stated in the Orthodox Church "fullness of God's Grace").
From my point of view, it looks to me like Protestants are ecumenistic to the point of sacrificing the Truth. In most Protestant Churches, I could believe virtually anything about Christ, so long as I proclaimed Him to be the Son of God, being both man and God, and that He is my Savior, and be accepted as Christian. What does this mean about the rest of the stuff Christ taught? That it doesn't matter? What about all the letters Paul wrote and the issues he addressed in them, were they just for fun?
At least the Catholic Church takes a stance and does it decisively.
I think this sheds light on the dangers of the Protestant approach to unity. Do we promote unity by sacrificing doctrine? If this continues, will we be able to distinguish 'Christianity' from Taoism down the road? I think Church preservation of doctrine preserves unity, unity in thought, prayer, and belief. Disunity is created when doctrine is changed.
2007-07-11 14:57:21
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answer #2
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answered by Josias B 2
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The doctrine of apostolic succession is the belief that the 12 apostles passed on their authority to successors, who then passed the apostolic authority on to their successors, continuing throughout the centuries, even unto today. The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the leader of the apostles, with the greatest authority, and therefore his successors carry on the greatest authority. The Roman Catholic Church combines this belief with the concept that Peter later became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishops that followed Peter were accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. Apostolic succession, combined with Peter’s supremacy among the apostles, results in the Roman bishop being the supreme authority of the Catholic Church – the Pope.
However, nowhere in Scripture did Jesus, the apostles, or any other New Testament writer set forth the idea of “apostolic succession.” Further, neither is Peter presented as “supreme” over the other apostles. The Apostle Paul, in fact, rebukes Peter when Peter was leading others astray (Galatians 2:11-14). Yes, the Apostle Peter had a prominent role. Yes, perhaps the Apostle Peter was the leader of the apostles (although the Book of Acts records the Apostle Paul and Jesus’ brother James as also having prominent leadership roles). Whatever the case, Peter was not the “commander” or supreme authority over the other apostles. Even if apostolic succession could be demonstrated from Scripture, which it cannot, apostolic succession would not result in Peter’s successors being absolutely supreme over the other apostles’ successors.
Catholics point to Matthias being chosen to replace Judas as the 12th apostle in Acts chapter 1 as an example of apostolic succession. While Matthias did indeed “suceed” Judas as an apostle, this is in no sense an argument for continuing apostolic succession. Matthias being chosen to replace Judas is only an argument for the church replacing ungodly and unfaithful leaders (such as Judas), with godly and faithful leaders (such as Matthias). Nowhere in the New Testament are any of the twelve apostles recorded as passing on their apostolic authority to successors. Nowhere do any of the apostles predict that they will pass on their apostolic authority. No, Jesus ordained the apostles to build the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20). What is the foundation of the church that the apostles built? The New Testament – the record of the deeds and teachings of the apostles. The church does not need apostolic successors. The church needs the teachings of the apostles accurately recorded and preserved. And that is exactly what God has provided in His Word (Ephesians 1:13; Colossians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:15; 4:2).
In short, apostolic succession is not biblical. The concept of apostolic succession is never found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is that the true church will teach what the Scriptures teach and will compare all doctrines and practices to Scripture in order to determine what is true and right. The Roman Catholic Church claims that a lack of ongoing apostolic authority results in doctrinal confusion and chaos. It is an unfortunate truth (that the apostles acknowledged) that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1). Admittedly, the lack of “supreme authority” amongst non-Catholic churches results in many different interpretations. However, these differences in interpretation are not the result of Scripture being unclear. Rather, they are the result of even non-Catholic Christians carrying on the Catholic tradition of interpreting Scripture in accordance with their own traditions. If Scripture is studied in its entirety and in its proper context, the truth can be easily determined. Doctrinal differences and denominational conflicts are a result of some Christians refusing to agree with what Scripture says – not a result of there being no “supreme authority” to interpret Scripture.
Alignment with Scriptural teaching, not apostolic succession, is the determining factor of the trueness of a church. What is mentioned in Scripture is the idea that the Word of God was to be the guide that the church was to follow (Acts 20:32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is the Scriptures that teachings are to be compared with (Acts 17:10-12). Apostolic authority was passed on through the writings of the apostles, not through apostolic succession.
Recommended Resource: The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Catholic Tradition and The Word of God by James McCarthy.
2007-07-11 20:19:35
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answer #3
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answered by Freedom 7
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Here is the full text of the new document that states nothing new: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
Most Christian denominations believe that each of them is the fullest version of the Church of Christ.
While the Catholic Church also believes that she is "the highest exemplar" of the mystery that is the Church of Christ, she does not claim that non-Catholic Churches are not truly Christian. The Catholic Church teaches:
Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.
Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.
All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him.
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 819: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p3.htm#819
With love in Christ.
2007-07-12 00:36:00
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answer #4
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answered by imacatholic2 7
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The Roman Catholic Church has ALWAYS held that position. Pope Benny's pontiffication is nothing new. The Church just hasn't been so in-your-face about it since Vatican II and the ecumenical movement.
2007-07-11 14:03:27
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answer #5
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answered by RickySTT, EAC 5
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The pope has no authority to reasserted the primacy of the catholic church... the catholic church gave themselves the authority over God and God's laws....a right that they do not have..
Only God has that authority and Jesus Christ only is the true path to salvation....
The practice of praying to idols, dead saints, etc. is against everything in the Bible.
A false teaching wrapped very loosely with a little truth, very little....
2007-07-11 14:09:48
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answer #6
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answered by coffee_pot12 7
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No, you are letting the news commentaries tell you what the document says instead of reading the actual document for yourself. The document can be found at http://www.zenit.org/article-20090?l=english
Here is a real quote from teh document:
It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them.[
It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation,
Edit:
From: coelus003
Subject: Re: Read the document
Message: ya know what, i really dont care. I hate you people. i hate all religious people for what they have done. I hope they all go to this hell of theirs for the evil and hate they spread, they are a cult in the worst sense of the word. Im a recovering christian, and engaged to a catholic, and grew up with a mormon best friend, ive seen it all, and hate it and everything the religious zealots stand for. Go to hell.
2007-07-11 14:08:38
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answer #7
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answered by Sldgman 7
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I think that that is a wrong perception, but many churchs claim to be the only true path to heaven.
Jesus said I am the way, he also said I am comming back for my church.
I don't see I am comming back for the catholic church.
2007-07-11 14:01:39
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answer #8
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answered by Cookyduster 4
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It worries me. I hoped the Catholic Church was branching out and endorsing anyone who professes Christ as a Christian. Now it seems they are reverting back to "anyone who professes the Pope is a Christian"
It places the Pope above Christ. It makes the Pope God.
2007-07-11 14:00:36
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answer #9
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answered by Anonymous
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Your "article" says this, but the Pope did not.
Go back and read what the Pope HIMSELF actually said, instead of what this reporter said that he said.
Peace be with you!
2007-07-11 14:27:31
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answer #10
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answered by C 7
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Sorry dude. That article is grossly inaccurate.
The pope NEVER said such a thing.
http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=154889&eng=y
2007-07-11 13:58:42
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answer #11
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answered by Max Marie, OFS 7
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