JWs, If you experienced the heavenly calling could you be talked out of it?

Question

I've known quite a few JWs who claimed to have the heavenly calling.

I've also known many who at some time or another had a feeling that they were of the annointed class but something held them back from partaking. The most consistent reason why they would doubt the leadings of the spirit was that they had been convinced that very few, if any, remained to fill the number of the 144,000 at this late date.

But there are some. The youngest I know is in her forties.

Have YOU ever thought you were having the experience of being called by the Holy Spirit? Did you begin partaking? If not, what held you back?

Hello Joyfilled. I think it is the height of egotism for someone to tell you, based on doctrine alone, that her own sister is one of those "chosen ones." Obviously she never bothered to even ask your mother about it! I'm surprised, but not.

Princess YumYum:

I looked up old WT articles on this ...

Over and over (usually in the spring just before "Memorial") there were articles about how to tell whether you were "of the annointed." Notable recurrent themes:

1) It's extrememly unlikely that any more are being "chosen."

2) In case you think you are, talk it over with the elders. (No intimidation there.)

3) Look at your personal background and circumstances in case delusion, drug use or "false religious" background is influencing you.

4) There's a gigantic responsibility tied to being one of the "remnant." Be really sure you want it.

As you read through these articles, the encoded buzzwords are rampant. Anyone with the genuine testimony of the spirit would have to be really determined to identify themselves as one of the 144,000. Rather than it being a private matter as with most Christians, they make it everyone else's business.

So... how many JWs got a genuine calling and suppressed it?

The youngest one I know is in her early 40s. I've personally known about a dozen of them. Most are pretty old, but not all.

Thanks for the comment, Jason... but that wasn't the question...

STELLAR COMMENTS Anna! Beautifully expressed.
Thank you.

Answer 1

The JW who said "I can't explain it really since OFCOURSE I'm not one of them..." proves (unwittingly) how JWs can be talked out of it. Most JWs don't even get the chance to consider the heavenly calling as a possiblity (let alone every Christian's rightful inheritance in Christ) as they are attracted into the movement on the hope of remaining human, on earth, forever. They are taught from the start that only 144,000 people will get to heaven and, "of course" that number is nearly filled up now. Even if the Holy Spirit gave them conviction of heaven, they'd risk a mini-inquisition acting upon that.

However, "new light" is breaking forth! The Wt.Soc is admitting that they were wrong to say the heavenly calling more or less closed in the early 1930s! (Could that have anything to do with the numbers still partaking 8 decades later disproving their idea?) It seems as if annual warnings before Passover have failed to stifle inner promptings, so perhaps the ground is being prepared for changing the 144,000 doctrine?

Answer 2

A week or two ago, a JW answered a question asked by Melissa Y (Funny thought about JW's) and said that about 8,500 of the anointed are left. So that means millions of JW's who do not have a heavenly calling, but believe they are going to live forever on a paradise earth, can not partake of the bread and the wine because they are not born again of the Holy Spirit. They have been told that "The same spirit is operating on Jesus' 'other sheep', but it is not arousing in them the hope and desire for heavenly life." (Watchtower 15 February 1998, page 19, para 6) They have been told they can have 'a measure' of the Holy Spirit, but cannot be fully annointed. Yet John the Baptist said of Jesus, "For the one whom God sent forth speaks the sayings of God, for he does not give the spirit by measure" (John 3: 34).

They claim that only those belonging to the elite 144,000 who have a heavenly hope, are in the New Covenant which Jesus inaugurated at the last supper some 2,000 years ago at Passover. Only they have been anointed with the Holy Spirit and only they can partake of the bread and the wine. (Watchtower March 15, 2004, pages 5 to 6).

Therefore that SHOULD mean any JW with a heavenly calling must be of the anointed class because the Holy Spirit has kindled in them a heavenly hope. That SHOULD mean no person could talk them out of it - regardless of statistics. However, we have evidence to the contrary - that Rutherford brought in a new teaching in 1935.

Sadly, this means that the millions of other JW's - those with the earthly hope - are not in the New Covenant. So Christ's outpoured blood does not cover them. Faith in Jesus, repentance and baptism are all necessary steps towards salvation but if you have not been born again by the Holy Spirit, where does that leave them? According to Romans 8: 9, "If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." How can they be sure their sins have been forgiven? Acts 2: 38 says "Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let each one of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit." This is the proof that our sins have been forgiven - the Holy Spirit comes upon us.

Millions of JW's do not have that assurance. They have to work to "earn" their salvation, hoping they will find favour with Jehovah (and the organisation). This is not the gospel message of salvation taught by Jesus. This is a false gospel.

P.S. Fuzzy said (correctly) that those with a heavenly hope must obey Christ's edict (to partake of the bread and wine) "UNTIL I COME". But the organisation claim JESUS SECOND COMING HAPPENED IN 1914. So why has ANY JW taken the bread and wine AFTER 1914?

Answer 3

It's happened before, as attested to by a brother named Eric Cooke whose life story is published in the Watchtower of 4/1/1989 p. 29 in an article entitled " A Wonderful Career "

He was baptized in 1930 and partook of the Memorial emblems, in accord with Jesus command to remember his death. He continued to do so after 1935, when it was "revealed" to Judge Rutherford, who in turn "revealed" it to the Witnesses, that you could live on the earth instead of going to heaven, and you didn't need to celebrate the Lord's Supper as it was intended; you could just celebrate the Lord's Supper by "observing" and passing around the wine and bread. (Not exactly a "supper" if nothing is eaten or drank.....try finding THAT in the Bible). His view wasn't altered. He knew he was going to heaven.

UNTIL in 1952, when The Watchtower published a clarification of the distinction between the earthly hope and the heavenly hope. Then not only Eric, but he says "We" realized that"we" did not have the hope of heavenly life.

Apparently the Watchtower publishing company has the ability to invalidate the leadings of the Holy Spirit in this regard.

Edit

Joyfilled...

The Witnesses didn't have a book by that name. They published a booklet in 1920 called "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" and then in 1973 they published a book called "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached". It's a yellow book; was that the one you studied in? It talked a lot about the millenium of peace which was due at the end of 6000 years of human history (which, according to what they call "Bible chronology" was 1975).

Answer 4

JWs who claim to have the heavenly calling is more than likely not true (especially young ones). To my knowledge all have already been chosen. Also, one who truly is one of the 144,000 knows they are. I can't explain it really since of course I'm not one of them and have not met any. But they just know, they don't have doubts whatsoever. They live their life just thinking about that moment that they'll be serving Jehovah in heaven. The few that remain are more than likely in their 70s or maybe older since some were the ones who endured great tribulation when they were imprisoned by Hitler in WWII (they wore the purple triangle), but not all though. And to answer your first question one can't be talked out of it because they are chosen by Jehovah, and that person feels it adn know they are going to heaven.

Well I hope I made sense to you. Have a great day.

Answer 5

Those that have experienced the change of hope now no longer hope to live on earth in a Paradise. It holds no personal attraction.

Though such a person may initially hesitate to partake, eventually if the person has been born again and the hope has changed, that person will realize that it is a sin not to obey Christ edict to do this until 'I' come.

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.

Since God through Christ makes this choice, there is no refusing anything. Refusal becomes meaningless. However, realize this, these have now become prime targets for Satan's war from their choosing until their death they have to suffer ten days -- this suffering is not just a few problems; no, it is a test to the very limit of their endurance. This is one reason the scriptures say, 'many were invited by few chosen.'

http://bythebible.page.tl/The-Refiner.htm
http://bythebible.page.tl/Baptism-With-Fire.htm

Indeed, some number of the chosen will not succeed and will end up disapproved.

Answer 6

Maybe this will help Jason change his mind...

Jesus has a right and a left, 2 GROUPS. Those to the right are saved, those to the left are damned. How is it that you come up with 3? Heavenly hope, Earthly hope, and destroyed???

Matthew 25:31-34,41,46
When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

JWs have 2 groups of sheep - joint heirs with Christ, and "other sheep"... except Jesus only mentioned those who may claim an inheritance as being on His right side...and according to JWs the "other sheep" are not in the new covenant with Jesus, and are not joint heirs with Christ....so which side of Jesus are they on?

According to Jesus, the "other sheep" are called to him and all become one fold.... which means ONE HOPE.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

John 10:7
Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Romans 8:1,2,8,9
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

There is NO CHANCE of eternal life if you do not have the annointing of the Holy Spirit. If you are of the flesh you will NOT be pleasing to God.

Sorry Suzanne... I know that didn't really answer your question either...

Answer 7

The Watchtower's dogma of of only a limited literal 144,000 of Watchtower elite going to heaven if false from the get-go.The two classes dogma was 'invented' by leader Joe Rutherford when Jesus didn't rapture them in 1914.

The central CORE doctrine of the Watchtower,yes the reason the Watchtower came into existence was to declare Jesus second coming in 1914.When the prophecy (derived from William Miller of 1842) failed they said that he came "invisibly".

Ergo,no 1914 then there can be no 1918 inspection and sealing of the 'anointed' so the entire Watchtower Bible and Tract Society doctrinal superstructure comes crashing down like a house of cards

WILLIAM MILLER http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/132920/1.ashx THE BEGINNING of it ALL
(If you go to this link you will see where the 1914 'Millerite math' came from)

Answer 8

No true Christian would delay acknowledging his calling for very long. To do so would seem to imply "fear of man", a personality flaw with little use among the heavenly 'kings and priests' of God and Christ.

(2 Corinthians 1:21) he who has anointed us is God.

(1 Peter 3:15) always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you


Similarly, it would seem that a person who repeatedly second-guesses whether or not he has the heavenly hope has his answer in his own misgivings.

(1 John 2:27) the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you

Answer 9

Dear Suzanne,

I am not a Watchtower Witness but my mom and several of her siblings are. When I was a child Mom often tried to talk about what she believed but as soon as she talked about Armageddon it caused me to STOP listening. So I don't know if she did talk about her heavenly calling or not..

But years later I was living near one of my aunts. Being away from family and friends, having a toddler to take care of and no car, I was very lonely. My aunt wasn't about to drive 5 miles to visit me socially but she would come to do book studies with me. The book she used was Thousands Now Living Will Never Die and she talked to me about the 144,000 and that my mom did have the heavenly calling because she was born before 1935 and was a jw.

So I was very surprised a couple of years ago to hear my mother talking about NOT wanting to go to heaven but looking forward to living on a restored earth. It sounds very humble when she says it but since I'm a Bible reader I find it very sad, since it isn't in the least bit biblical!

My hunch is that someone in the Hall talked Mom out of her "heavenly calling". Why would such a thing happen? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that my dad died as a Christian, rather than a jw and that none of my siblings became jws. I think that Mom now feels her "calling" is to remain on earth to "judge" Dad for his "sins". In other words they had to make room for somebody who managed to convert their family - the heavenly calling being based on WORKS rather than GRACE!

Edit: Suzanne, my aunt was trying to be humble by talking about Mom rather than herself. According to whatever her checklist was for who goes to heaven and who doesn't, she also qualified for heaven by being a jw and having been born by the big cut-off year.

Steervase, thank you for correcting me. Were you a jw earlier in your life? You are right, that was a pamphlet rather than a book. When I was answering there was no way I could bring myself to say my aunt came to do a Bible study because we hardly used the Bible but we did use jw materials. The year was 1971 and both my aunt and I were operating under ulterior motives. I was LONELY and needed adult company. She and her friend (both of whom I liked very much) had to put time on their time sheets. When I moved across the country I threw the materials out and forgot them completely until I started reading and studying the Bible on my own many years later. It was only then that I understood.

For His glory,
JOYfilled

Answer 10

I'm a Jehovah's Witness and my hope is to live on a paradise earth forever.