Pope: "Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches."

Question

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/ap_on_re_eu/pope_other_christians

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

So, I guess if we are not Roman Catholics and not recognize the pope we are not saved.

What you guys think of this?

Answer 1

Here is the full text of the new document that states nothing new: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

Most Christian denominations believe that each of them is the fullest version of the Church of Christ.

While the Catholic Church also believes that she is "the highest exemplar" of the mystery that is the Church of Christ, she does not claim that non-Catholic Churches are not truly Christian. The Catholic Church teaches:

Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.

Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.

All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him.

With love in Christ.

Answer 2

It is understandable. Virtually every "Christian" denomination feels that it has the truth and understands the path to salvation, else why be a part of it in the first place? Can we imagine a professed Christian saying "Well, I don't believe this religion is the right one and I don't believe it is the truth but I am part of it anyway."

Any person who is part of a religion ought to be serious enough about it to believe it is the truth.

As for all the different denominations, if they were all truly Christian, why do they differ markedly? Why do they contradict each other in their doctrines and actions?

Some people say that what is important is to have the basic: that is, faith in Jesus Christ and the details don't matter.

That is like saying don't worry if you have cancer so long as your heart is strong. The heart is the basic muscle in our bodies. Can it defy cancer? Of course not. Other "details" matter.

So if the Pope feels that Catholicism is the one true path, that is an understandable position. And if other denominations feel the same way, that too is understandable.

However, what we believe to be truth ought to be acceptable to the true God. It is He who determines how we ought to worship him. We conform to His standards, and not the other way around. So, do our doctrines and practices match up with those of the first century Christians? Truly? Then we are on the narrow road to salvation of which Christ spoke at Matthew 7:13-14.

Hannah J Paul

Answer 3

The word Christian means Follower of Christ. In order to be a Follower of Christ, you need to acknowledge him as the Head of the Church because that is what is taught in the Bible.
The Catholic Church claims that the Pope is the head of the Church. Therefore by definition, Catholics cannot be considered Christians. The correct designations for Catholics is Paptist which means Follower of the Pope.
Also, the Catholic Church claims that their religion goes all the way beck to the original group of believers and that Peter was the first Pope. However, the idea of one person being Head of the entire Church didn't come into existence until four hundred years after Peter died. Therefore, he could not have been the first Pope.
In summary, Catholics are not Christians. They are using the name of Jesus as a marketing tool to promote their own religion.

Answer 4

The Catholic Church has never stated that being a Catholic simply guarantee's you "salvation". Furthermore, if you study the actual history of early Christianity your salvation is not assured.St. Paul himself spoke about how it's possible for Christians to loose their salvation. If you say you believe in Jesus Christ, but do not do the things he preached you to do, then you shall not be "saved"

Instead of being upset about the Catholic Church calling denominations "false" why dont you actually do some historical research and see if it has actual reasons for such an assertion?

If a Church cannot provide historical credentials that lead back for thousands of years to the time of Christ himself then it is clearly not the Church that Christ himself founded on the Apostles.

The Church is more then a fellowship of "like minded believers who all believe Jesus Christ is Lord" The early Christian Church actually had a hierchy structure to it. Co-incidently their are actual writings from this time period that proove that the early Christians beliefs were Catholic in their views. For example the Protestant belief of Sola Scripture (Bible alone) did not come about until the reformation. The idea that Christs apostles taught that doctrine is laughable, considering they did not even start writing it until they were dying off.

Answer 5

That is not in any way what he is saying.

In a nutshell it comes down to this: for Catholics, a church is a community bonded by the glue of the sacraments and apostolic succession. That may not be what a church means to you - and in fact it isn't - but it is what a church means to us.

You yourselves insist that apostolic succession does not matter, and that sacraments are either symbols only, or worse - pagan stuff of non-Christian origin (even though the bible describes the sacraments in detail.)

Since you agree that you do not believe in those things that, for us, verily define what a church is - you're actually in complete agreement with us. You do not meet a Catholic definition of a church.

It does not mean you are "unsaved" or any of that business - Dominus Iesus never said that, and the CDF is not saying that now. It means only what it means - Catholics and Protestants both agree that the Catholic definition for a church does not fit what these "ecclesial communities" are.

("Ecclesial communities" is our phrase for Protestant chuches).

Answer 6

Shouldn't make much of a difference if you're not Catholic and don't follow the pope anyway, should it? The guy's just reasserting an old doctrine the Catholic church has always had about itself, and isn't much different than Protestants claiming that only their interpretation of the Bible is correct.

Answer 7

Buddy,
There is indeed one true God, one Faith, one Baptism.

And every church thinks they are it.

Some believe it doesn't matter what road you are on, all roads lead to Christ.

Well, Christ doesn't think so. He talked of only two roads/gates. And they both lead to different directions.

Christ and his apostles tells us in the Bible, what to look for in the true religion. I'm not going there in this answer however.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Mat 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

Answer 8

>>What you guys think of this?<<

I think you need to read Dominus Iesus for yourself, instead of relying on what the news tells you. It does NOT say non-Catholic cannot be saved; just the opposite:

“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”. (section 17)
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html

Answer 9

>>>So, I guess if we are not Roman Catholics and not recognize the pope we are not saved.<<<

That's not what the Vatican document said.

In fact, it says quite the opposite -- it says that members of Orthodox churches and Protestant denominations still may acquire sanctification and salvation.

The Vatican was speaking about the churches -- not the people in them.

.

Answer 10

As usual, the secular news has gotten it wrong again. Following is copied from an online catholic news source:

Noting that churches and ecclesial communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church “suffer from defects,” the doctrinal congregation acknowledged that “elements of sanctification and truth” may be present in them.

“It follows that these separated churches and communities … are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation,” the congregation said. “In fact, the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church.”