This one's a doozy: is God really omni-anything?

Question

A lot of Christians just take for granted the idea that God is omnipresent, omnipotent, etc...but do we really have a basis for it? The more I think about it, the more my answer becomes "no".

I've been researching a lot about "open theism" lately (as I've mentioned once or twice already), and it seems to be more on mark with what God actually is according to the Bible as opposed to according to Christian tradition. It holds that the God described in the Bible is the MOST powerful, MOST knowing, MOST loving, and MOST unchanging in his nature, but not omni-everything.

In scripture, he changed his mind and plans, voluntarily limited Himself in power, was surprised by events on Earth, was hurt, and paid attention to the pleas of men and angels. This is all contradictory to the omni-claim.

My question is: do you think that God is really omni-everything, or is that a construction of religion? How can we know for sure if there's not sufficient Biblical support? (More in details..)

Look at the problems/issues brought up by non-Christians continually: why do we pray if God already has a plan? If God is good, why does evil exist? Did God trap us by creating us in a universe where sin is inevitable? Is God’s omnipotence limited in that he can’t create a creature whose future is unknown to him? If God can do anything, why does he choose to stop suffering in some cases and allow it in others?

All these questions stem from the idea that God’s foreknowledge is inexhaustible and I have yet to see Christians offer really good answers to them, apart from “don’t question God” and “you gotta have faith.” But wouldn’t an open theistic (and more Biblical) view of God answer all these questions?

In open theism, prayers would matter because God could actually take them into consideration if the future isn’t predetermined. Evil exists because there are other powers in the universe than God, while he is still the MOST powerful he is not ALL powerful.

I warned you it was a doozy, but I'm almost done.

Also it seems that this is the only system in which we would actually have free will, because in a world when everything has already been decided, free will is obsolete.

Any thoughts on all this? I’m still trying to figure out what I make of it.

For further reading: http://www.opentheism.info/

First of all: I am not looking for you to just say God is omni-(fill in the blank). I'm looking for reasons and support, please.

Secondly: No, I'm not on my way to being an atheist. Thinking like this serves in reaffirming my faith. But since most people on this site think atheist=smart, I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you!

Third: to the kind Mr. "ar". I do believe that God created the earth, I am not arguing that point. I'm arguing the idea that he's ALL powerful and LIMITLESS. You claim that he's omnipotent, yet offer no reason or Biblical proof why. And I'm the one who is "simple minded"?

Answer 1

Well done. You have actually found an answer that addresses my critiques of Christianity and makes sense to me. I have no idea if their is a creator to our universe, at least the one you described. I have not seen evidence to either support or deny the existence of such a being. The omni-everything God never did make sense. It created too many paradoxes. Now I'll have to call myself agnostic again. :-)

Answer 2

I reject deism,although I do not consider it a "human invention" - I would be more generously inclined to consider it subjective projection,as understandable as it is innocent of deception. People tend to want to personify spiritual values and inevitably that leads to personification of the entire spiritual realm,which means conceptualizing a Super God or God-of-All Gods,in other words a Supreme Being. I think it's something humanity is beinning to outgrow; the risk now is that having discarded deism people will go to the opposite extreme and discard the idea that there is indeed a spiritual aspect to reality and that in fact it is dominant over the material plane,which is a more than a facade but still just an outward manifestation. I don't believe in spiritual energy being personified at all but yes,I would still consider what you call "god" to be omnipresent - since that is the nature that underlies all of physical reality. Somehow a distinction between the god-concept and godliness - a generalized spirituality,pervading everything - never seems to occur to most people.

Answer 3

Hi Rachel, I'm a Rachel too. :) I had all of these questions before once too. You obviously are smart enough and brave enough to challenge what your religion has been telling you. Thank you for listening and considering what your atheist and other non-christians friends have to say about the bible, god and all of the inconsistancies therein. There are two websites I'd like to submitt for your review to add to your research into this. www.godisimaginary.com and www.thegodpart/premise.com They are from an atheistic ex-christian perspective. But it's also some very good food for thought. Good luck in your journey, Rachel. :)

Answer 4

All the above. None are exclusive. Its in the Bible for the same reason all the parables and prophecies are in the bible. To tell the reader about the influence and power of God. As for empirical evidence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipotent, omni everything being you can neither empirically prove or disprove its existence.

Answer 5

That's a lot of thinking you're doing, don't hurt yourself.

But in all seriousness, I'm no Biblical expert but this makes sense when it comes to answering a lot of the problems the presence of an omni-God creates.

Unfortunately I'd wager that most Christians are too stubborn and/or afraid to change their view of God from what they've been taught. Good for you for seeking what you feel is the truth rather than being satisfied with what you've been force-fed.

Answer 6

Interesting. I often wondered where we get the idea of omni-everything.

I agree God is a powerful being but does he have to be all that we think a God is?

This interests me.

Answer 7

This is definitely *much* more reasonable than the Christian god, though I don't think it's any more true.

An omnigod tends to be self-contradictory.


Careful, though. A lot of evangelical Christians (and even some non-evangelicals) are passionately opposed to the very idea of open theism.




I might question whether a god weak enough to be unable to rule the world would not be a good candidate for creating the world, but why does a god need to create the universe? While I cannot bring myself to believe in any gods, I would think a god who did *not* create things would make for more interesting stories, and she would be more believable, perhaps the product of a long-evolving civilization elsewhere.

Sort of like how my pet bird thinks I'm a god.

Answer 8

Only God has created the Universe in his all powerful-ness. Only God could show us infinite love in his all loveableness. Only God knows everything in his all knowableness. He is omnipotent, omniscient, etc.

Answer 9

I might not agree with your conclusion about the existence of god but you are one of the few theists on here whose thought processes I appreciate, respect, and understand. Maybe because you're using actual logic. I wonder how many christians will accuse you of heresy and denounce you for this.

Answer 10

The ultimate creator is neutral.

A benevolent deity by definition could not be omnipotent though it might claim to be; it might even believe that he is.

Judaism's "mono-theism" grew out of the Zoroastrian concept of a neutral uninvolved creator with 2 balanced (good, evil) deities below it.
Though the priests contemplated the entire system, there was no reason for the common people to worry about a powerful evil deity nor a neutral creator. They were not taught the higher mysteries