Who is willing to defend the indefensible?

Question

Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God

Upon reflection, I have to say that this would not be the first time an imaginary friend has been defended. Thanks Super Atheist, when will I learn to stop expecting logic from Christians. sigh!

atomic penguin:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
in·de·fen·si·ble /ˌɪndɪˈfɛnsəbəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-di-fen-suh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. not justifiable; inexcusable: indefensible behavior.
2. incapable of being protected or defended against attack: an indefensible town.
3. incapable of being defended against criticism or denial; untenable: indefensible argument.

Answer 1

Sorry, Mia, but the theists have this one covered, with a great deal of specious verbal spaghetti about how evil is not God's fault, but ours.

And how it's good for us, really, to witness the slaughter of innocents in order to focus our minds on righteousness.

Strangely, I can't help thinking I'd be more aware of Goodness if I didn't regularly have to see babies drowned or people's faces ripped off by bullets. I must have a Bad Attitude.

CD

Answer 2

There are so many long answers below that this will surely have a hard time making itself heard. Well here it goes.

Epicurus, and you both seem to think that a few brief logical statements make a proof.

Quote: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Answer: Most people would think this logic unassailable. But is it? That is the question, isn't it.

For example, how could God be unable to prevent evil while still being almighty? The explanation is found in the book of Job! Here we see how God was challenged and what he was challenged with.

1. in the book of Job, Satan's challenge to God was about anyone among men serving god while undergoing the following:
chp 1:11But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will renounce thee to thy face.

2. secondly, God was challenged even further.
chp 2: 4And Satan answered LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man has he will give for his life. 5But put forth thy hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will renounce thee to thy face
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From this we can understand that Satan's challenge was not of God's power. It had to do with the quality of God's creation, men.

Satan claimed that
A. if a man had all his belongings taken away through some suffering, he would renounce God.
B. if a man had to prove his loyalty to God by dying for him, nobody would or could do this.
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Thus we see that Satan started a legal court case in the heavens claiming that for the above reasons, no man would serve God.
C. There was one more claim, but it was made in the Garden of Eden. Namely, that men do not need God's help in ruling themselves. They can do this for themselves just fine.
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For the reason of permitting this legal court case to be answered with finality once and for all, God therefore gave men self-rule with all of the baggage that includes -- EVIL, CATASTROPHES, DISEASE, WAR.

The court case has finished and the deliberations are done. What we see now is the end of times, the last days, in which the gospel is being preached to all men globally, so as to save as many from this generation as is possible.

Thus you should be able to understand that Epicurus' simplistic proof has adequate counterarguments if one is willing to listen and to find it.

Contact me if desired of if you need further debunking of Epicurus.

Answer 3

God could prevent all mishap, but then He'd have to control everyone. Although in heaven God will be "all in all", i.e. God's loving presence will be with people and wanted by them, and so everything will be very harmonious, it certainly isn't so now. I think most people want to run their own lives. (Its true of virtually everyone, though as christians we have the presence of God in our lives - when you are with someone who loves you and is infinitely wise, you develop gradually into obedience). Also Nature here and now trundles along in its at times out-of-control ways. Result - some suffering for all. Because the whole thing is necessarily haphazard, some suffer very unfairly, yet sometimes quite cruel individuals may have an easy earthly life.

Answer 4

I always will defend what I believe is right even if in most peoples opinion's it's wrong but hey that's just me simple me.

You can never expect anyone to share the same thoughts or opinions as yourself not even your loved ones so to expect people that have accepted (God) to not defend that right then you are on a loser.

I always find that when I meet like minded people we get on and can learn to compromise with our own idiosyncrasies thus forming a true friendship not based on falsehood or fables just how it is for me anyway.

Answer 5

Yea all that's smoke and mirrors. concentration on their time table and on the philosophy they attraction to. there's a warfare over who ought to shoulder the tax burden. it rather is totally genuine and intensely dynamic. Our founding fathers created a united states wherein earned income became not taxed in any respect. meaning that one and all financing required to function a central authority and treasury got here from residual income and revenues taxes. The possession classification gadgets to this occasion and insists that the working classification at the instant are not paying their dues taxes. they warfare to abolish company taxation on an identical time as additionally abolishing low income tax breaks/credit. They argue passionately for a "flat tax". that's the genuine factor of opposition between the fabulous and left. each and every thing else is purely window dressing upon the question of tax accountability. i think taxing a worker on his hard artwork is unethical. I even have confidence that government and treasury purely exist to enable firms and a wealth accumulation device. hence it rather is the device who ought to finance the government equipment. not the staff. subsequently - i perceive myself as a leftist.

Answer 6

If god created the heavens (entire universe) and the earth in 6 days. And took the day off on the 7th. I'm sure he would have over looked a few items. All that creating has to take a lot out of you, even if your god.

Answer 7

First of all, it is not indefensible.

God has an appointed time to bring an end to suffering. Do not mistake his patience for weakness. He could simply have killed Adam and Eve after they sinned, but what would that have proved? Only that he had the power to do so, it would not have solved the issues raise in Eden about his sovereignty, his right to rule.

Adam and Eve not only disobeyed God but they were also led to believe that they could decide what was right and wrong, that they could live independently of God. It would have been unjust of God not to allow time to pass for Man to prove whether he could live independently of God or not. I'm sure you'll agree that Man has failed dismally. Had God destroyed Adam and Eve, you would not have been born.

God clearly has the power to destroy the wicked as he has demonstrated this in the past - the Flood of Noah's day, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Egyptians at the Red Sea.

The Bible clearly shows that we are living in the last days of this system, and that God will act most decisively. I would recommend an honest-hearted study of the Bible, then make up your mind about whether God exists or not, wether He is omnipotent or not.

Epicurus clearly didn't have all the facts.

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I've yet to hear any sort of logic from an atheist.

Answer 8

Ahhhh, the theologians dilemma par excellence !!!

God is evolving ! To do this, He is using us and this world as His laboratory. He started out timeless, not in touch with His feelings and amoral (as nature is). Via 'free will' and the subsequent problems of 'sometimes you gotta break the rules' issue; He has grown magnificently.

He mellowed a lot between the O.T. and the New; when Jesus proclaimed the change in God from 'I'll punish them and they'll obey' to ' I will love them and they will desire to worship Me'. Jesus also stated that WE Christians were to act the same way. The new age people have one piece of Truth right and that is: As above; so below -- and vice versa.

This 'great experiment' is also humiliating the wicked ones and proving to them that they are no-thing; and that what they 'said' they could do is worthless, i.e. develop society's and cultures and their institutions. Look around you NOTHING works ! Using up the oil, corrupt politics, unprincipled businesses, law and education processes that are travesty's ad nauseum.

Maranantha

Answer 9

Read St. Augustine...defends this very well.

This question is asked many different ways every week, and what I've come to understand is that there is no answer that most atheists will accept, so there's no point in posting very detailed answers on this subject. I have one observation to make ,though. We as Christians are encouraged to examine the evidence of evolution and make changes to our way of thinking, yet much of the atheist population of YA is unwilling to do the same. It all comes back to "there is no god, so there is no evidence" for the non-believer. What I've realized is that when I read posts by atheists or pagans about Christian's being unwilling to consider different points of view, I've come to understand that the atheist stands guilty of the same thing. The hypocrisy of some of the anti-christian statements in yahoo Answers is astounding.

Answer 10

If I create you, and decide in fairness to allow you to make your own decisions---then if I interfere with those decisions---do you really have free will? Would it be fair to make creatures who cannot decide for themselves?

Why not blame your parents for the bad things you do---after all--they brought you into this world, knowing you might do bad things---so really it is just as much their fault as yours.

Sounds dumb doesn't it?

But no more dumb than what you just said.

We all need a little time to think things out and see things from all angles---God told us what was right and wrong, good and evil----its up to us to choose the right thing.