What do you think of Idaho?

Question

There are absolutely no requirements for homeschooling. No tests, nothing. All a parent has to do is say he or she is going to homeschool. There is no accountability. I have two students right now who were "home schooled" and can barely read. I mean a 16 y.o. and an 18 y.o. They read at about a 2nd grade level. The only reason they are even in public school now is because CPS intervened. So, do you think this is ok or do you think homeschoolers should be made accountable?

P.S. Anytime this is mentioned locally all the homeschoolers get angry. I know there are some parents out there doing a great job homeschooling, but what about the kids whose parents aren't?

Answer 1

To whom should the parents be accountable? And who gets to set the standards?

This is a fundamental question of political philosophy, and it goes much deeper than just dealing with the question of these two students. Our system of constitutional government places a very high priority on personal liberty over the power of the state to control individual actions. Yes, these two students have been ill served, but does that justify imposing restrictions on the vast majority of parents who have done right by their children? Probably not.

First, the "accountability" systems that have been imposed on public education are there because public schools expend public funds appropriated for a specific purpose. The people (taxpayers) are entitled to get their money's worth from the school system. Homeschooler's receive no stipend from the state, so there is no basis for an accountability system based on state funding.

Second, the government "accountability" schemes, from district level testing programs to the national NCLB program, that have been imposed on public education have two significant drawbacks. They cost money to implement, and they don't work very well. Even if the school itself is performing at its proficiency targets, it is still possible for a student to spend 12 years in the system and emerge at age 18 functionally illiterate. There is no reason to believe that an accountability system for homeschoolers will be any more effective.

Our public school system exists to meet two needs, and it must meet both of them in order to be constitutionally viable. It must provide a service to the child and his/her family that justifies compulsory attendance or it violates the ninth amendment and the Constitution's Habeus Corpus clause. It must also provide a benefit to society (the taxpayers again) that justifies the use of the power of taxation, or it violates that "takings" clause of the fifth amendment and similar clauses in every state constitution and other requirements that expenditures of public funds be for the public good.

The value given to the child/family is the education the child is afforded (whether he/she makes good use of it is another matter). The value provided to society is the production of an educated work force that raises the economic standard of the community as a whole.

From a practical point of view, imposing accountibility on homeschoolers to attempt to prevent situations like the one you describe would require the expenditure of large amounts of public funds to identify the very small number of cases in which intervention could occur, and then attempt to mediate those cases with a bureaucratic response that will probably be ineffective. Such a program would remove a large amount of funds from some other program (i.e.: classroom teachers salaries, school textbooks, the police department or CPS budget, etc.) and place an increased work load on whatever governmental agency is tasked with administering and enforcing the accountibility standards, for a marginal impact on the social/economic goal of the taxpayers, while arguably violating the Constitutional rights of the parent and the student, who have rejected the value provided to them by the public school system. The homeschooler would also have to expend time and energy, if not money, to take the tests and prove compliance. Time, energy and money for which they will not be compensated. From this point of view, imposing accountibility on homeschoolers makes no sense.

The only way imposing accountability makes sense, and I believe this is what you are suggesting should be done, is to assert that the child has a "right" to an education, and the state should step in as parent patriae to enforce that right when the natural parent fails to meet some arbitrary standard. The problem here is that the standard is, and must be, arbitrary.

What constitutes an adequate education? You and I might not agree as to the answer to that question. For most folks, a high school diploma is where the "right" to a publicly purchased education ends, beyond that we have to pay for it ourselves. But the Amish believe that 8th grade is good enough for their children, and their children become successful in the Amish trades and farms with that level of education. I happen to love history, but I don't think it is required that every child become well versed in it. Some think you aren't educated without a thourough knowledge of history. And the right to have your primary education paid for by tax funds is not the same as a right to an education.

Most might agree on the basics: Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic, but not all will. And even if we agree on the 3R's, what level is the standard? Does the majority impose their will on the minority? Do we turn it over to so-called "experts" to mandate what is good for us, whether we like it or not? The Parker Jensen case in Utah is a case in point. Doctors believed that Chemotherapy was the best thing for Parker, the family felt that the side effects of that treatment were too severe and wanted to try other treatments. Who should make that decision? Certainly not the state, and fortunately, the courts decided that it shouldn't be the "expert" doctors. Educational decisions are less fatal than medical decisions, should the state or the experts be able to pre-empt the parents here? I don't believe so.

When we ask the state to step in as parent patriae, it is almost always a case of some other family not living up to the standards we have set for ourselves, which we feel should be imposed on others. We rarely, if ever, say there ought to be a law to impose accountability on me because I'm not meeting someone elses standards. Whenever we say "there ought to be a law" we should also ask ourselves if we would be willing to comply if the standard is set higher than what we would set. Many choose homeschool because the public schools don't reach the standards they've set for themselves.

The bottom line here is that, while I agree these two students appear to have been ill served, it would not be beneficial to impose accountability standards on the rest of the state of Idaho just to prevent the relatively few cases like the one you describe.

Answer 2

As a former teacher and homeschooling mom, I have given this topic a great deal of consideration. I think homeschoolers have a good reason for not wanting the government to be involved in their personal lives-- they have different educational philosophies, methods and goals, and do not want these to be interfered with by a system whose philosophies, methods and goals they disagree with.

Homeschoolers do not want to be monitored and measured by this system of arbitrary standardizations, or be forced to compare themselves to this system. They do not want to be judged by the very people most vocally opposed to their educational choice. They do not want their children to be labeled by this system, or for their weaknesses to be picked apart while their strengths are ignored. They don't want their children rushed or slowed down, or time taken away from real educational experiences, to teach them to pass a standardized test or jump through a particular hoop at a specific time.


Think about this: There are some parents raising their infants till age 5 and doing great; but some aren't. Should we send someone in to check on all babies, then, and make sure parents are doing their jobs well?

Why are we waiting until kids are 5 years old before making sure that parents are doing good jobs? Why not check every family when they have babies-- check their homes, their parenting methods, and evaluate how the child is doing.

No one I've ever asked seems to want the government getting into their home and deciding what is right and not right for their child-- and yet the same people will be surprised when homeschoolers feel the same way.

Answer 3

While there may be a small number of parents who are not doing a good job of homeschooling, most do a good job and homeschoolers as a group have higher test scores and are more successful in college and the workplace.

The more involved parents are in the education of their children, the more successful that student is likely to be whether they recieve their education in a classroom or at home.

This however misses the real issue involved in homeschooling.

The real issue is: Whose job is it to decide what is best for children in regards to education? Is it the job of parents or the state?

As far as homeschoolers are concerned it is, primarily at least, the parent's resposibility. Different home schoolers will vary in how much if any regulation the states should be allowed to place on home schools.

Personally, as someone who has grown up around the education system (my parents both work in education) I think that the states need to concentrate on cleaning up their own messes, known as public schools, instead of looking for problems where very few exist.

Answer 4

First, if Idaho has NO standards, then why did CPS intervene? I mean, if the parents are not required to do ANYTHING how could they have been breaking any laws by producing two illiterate kids?

Now, after saying that let me tell you that I believe that case to be rare, most homeschoolers are doing a great job of educating their children, regardless of whether the law "makes" them or not.

I also know of some High School graduates who somehow scated through Public School and never learned to read.

As far as what I think of Idaho, you are actually wrong to say there are no requirements. The law in Idaho does say that attendance must be equal to that of the public schools, and the subjects taught must be the same as the public schools, and the educational experience must be able to classified as "otherwise comparibly instructed". That answers my question, which I asked before researching Idaho state laws. CPS obviously intervened because these requirements were not being met, unfortunately for these kids they intervened late.

Now, I do not angry at the people who ask these kinds of questions, it does make some point for at least some monitoring of Homeschools. My state requires yearly testing after the age of 8, but I begin testing in first grade even though my kids are not yet 8 when they finish first grade. I want to know how they are doing, from an objective source. Usualy nothing in the test surprizes me, they are strong exactly where I knew they were and weak exactly where I knew they were.

Should the laws in Idaho be changed? Maybe, maybe not. Just because one family does something awful to their children, doesn't necessarlily mean every family should be watched. Let me put it a different way, just because some families physically abuse their kids should we install camaras in everyone's home just to watch parents and make sure they are not doing that?

Just because some public school teachers are abusive, should the principal install camaras in every classroom and watch?

I am not saying the law should not be changed, just that we need to think about it very carefully before giving the government more power to put their nose into our business.

Now if you feel the law should be changed, you are free to lobby for that. You are free to write your state government, tell them about these unfortunate kids, and ask the state to do something about the laws.

However, I feel that most parents want what is best for their kids and don't need laws to make them do what is in their children's best interest. Before I would be willing to push for more government control I would have to see large numbers of Idaho homeschoolers turning out illiterate, not just two.

Good luck helping those kids. I hope things turn out all right for them.

Answer 5

I am fifteen and was homeschooled in Idaho until last semester. I now attend a public high school - a very vast difference.

Now, homeschoolers generally are far more advanced than regular public-school going kids. This means that they can be given more trust than most kids. But the key word here is 'more.' They are still human, and there are still those who take advantage of the ability to school as a family.

So I do believe homeschoolers should be held accountable - however the rules should not be too strict. Tests should be taken to make sure that the homeschoolers are not taking advantage of their lax environment. As long as they aren't, things should be fine.

Answer 6

To be perfectly nasty,they do not hold the public school system to be accountable when children graduate barely literate. But every child is entitles to an education, whether the state provides it or the family. In a free society we have educational choices that fit the diversity of families and every child's educational needs. The majority of homeschoolers are attempting to give their children the best education and they use a variety of means and they can not always be judged by the conventional testing methods. But I agree. Denying a child an education is child abuse albeit a highly subjective form of child abuse. What other issues were in the family other than poor reading skills?

Answer 7

I totally agree. If you want rules governing homeschool parents, the same, or even higher standards need to be placed on the public schools (I say higher because our tax dollars pay for those places)
I stopped before I began typing and counted up how many below grade level students I know in both camps and I have more on the public school side. (I spend a lot of time volunteer working with students from public, private and homeschools)
One example in particular, I have a fifth grader in one of my classes that is on a pre-emergent spelling and reading level. She is in public schools and has already advanced to sixth grade. I have three more in that class (of 12) that cannot take tests. They cannot handle the pressure (I personally feel this is due to all the pressure to perform on standardized tests in the public schools)
Every year in my state we have parents protesting the public schools because they want their children to graduate even though they cannot pass exit exams. Their mantra (evey year, mind you, not just one or two parents) is they pay taxes and they want their children to receive a diploma regardless of the rules.
so, accountability? start in the public sector.

Answer 8

Playing devils advocate - what about public school graduates who can't fill out a job application or read at a basic level? Sad as it is, there are plenty - and they are passed through the ranks due to pressure on the teachers etc.

I think there was a lot more going on in that home than "homeschooling" - it sounds like everything but schooling happened there. And honestly, CPS probably wouldn't intervene just for low test scores, there had to be more to the picture.

However, I don't think that all homeschoolers should have to be subjected to state testing because of the few black sheep - hear me out here. State testing is geared to the school district scope and sequence - home schooling is not.

For example - in elementary, due to how my son understands concepts, I chose to structure much of his curriculum around chronological history. We started with ancient and went from there. In science, due to his fascination with it, we tend to "camp out" in deep studies instead of doing a broad overview. In math, he goes through a year-long math book every three months. On the downside, he's dyslexic and has trouble decoding words if he can't figure out the context, so we've been remediating with reading comprehension, spelling, and writing - but at 8 years old he was able to comprehend and discuss The Hobbit when he heard it on audiobook. Like a standardized test is going to be able to measure his abilities?

I don't live in a state where we're required to test, and I've chosen to keep him out of testing for the past few years (he's starting 5th grade now). Right now, it wouldn't test his skills, it would test his ability to test. I'm working test skills in with his work, and will start testing him at either the end of 5th or 6th grade...but this is mainly to get him ready for SAT/ACT, not so much to test him.

In a classroom of 30 kids, a district of several hundred or thousand, testing is a necessary evaluation - there's no way to know what the kids are learning any other way, there's just not enough hours in the day. However, when you have 1-3 students, it's completely possible to know where they are in every subject, to move them ahead where they're able, and to give additional practice or remediation where it's necessary. And quite frankly, since we don't get the benefit of any government funds (like public and some private schools do), I'd really rather not have the government nosing about my son's education...but that's another subject.

Yes, some homeschoolers slack on their kids' educations. That's a sad fact of life. But please look at both sides - there are public and private school parents that slack miserably on their kids' educations as well, and then blame the teachers for it. Please don't judge us all by the few who slack - they are truly a small minority.

Answer 9

In high school, I knew kids that were in public school all their lives who were at the same reading level you mentioned.

A friend of mine, a school teacher in California, told me the other day that she cannot "hold back" a student who is suffering horrible grades and has fallen desperately behind. The reason? Because if you hold him back, he will just continue to fail. Might as well let him fail the next year as well.

So, with such a stance... that moving kids along, pass or fail, is more important than making sure all students reach their potential regardless of the cost... what right do they have to question whether or not I am keeping up with their standards? What standards?!

I prefer the state to keep its nose out of my business.

Answer 10

My wife was home schooled in Idaho. Her mom used the McGuffey Readers. She reads faster than anyone I have ever met. It does take me a while to figure out her handwriting. She had to go get her GED when she wanted to go to college because the college did not accept home schooling. Her cousins were also home schooled and were great at math but could barely read anything.
My daughter went to public school and was still unable to read in the second grade so they held her back a year. We decided to put her in an internet home schooling program for one year where she talks with a certified teacher. She now loves reading. I think it just depends on who ever is teaching and the needs of the child.
But I am tired of people wanting to make a law for everything, especially personal things. I went to public school and there are equally or worse things that go on there. This is a family issue.