Pagans, why do you think it’s so difficult to get reliable information about Paganism from Pagans?

Question

I ask because, except for the first 18 months of my experience with Paganism I’ve had to be a loan practitioner. I’ve recently gone to some local meetings of COG, which have so far been kind of tedious administrative meetings more than “Worship Services” for lack of a better term.

(I hope that statement is taken with some understanding. Please don’t bust my chops over it.)

Many Pagan books I’ve studied have been flamed by other Pagans, and even some of the popular baseline misconceptions of the faith are sometimes discredited, for example some reject the Rede outright. (I understand that one, because It’s a recent invention to make Wicca more palatable to outsiders.)

I’m not trying to herd cats here, but the lack of structure and reputable teachers is becoming frustrating.

Odd that the same thing that's attractive about Paganism is what I find frustrating.

It’s human nature to occasionally want easy answers, but exploring your spiritual needs just has to be difficult sometimes.

I kind of envy the Christians for their easy answers but I’d rather be alone then a lemming.

In fact it would be better for a person to be a true Satanist then a modern Christian, because there’s something profoundly evil about such easy answers.

It's a shame to get to the place where your primary communion is with your immediate family and YA. LOL

HELP I'm a Pagan trapped in Orange County California! Republican homeland :(

Answer 1

Gnostic, over the MANY years that I have been a Witch I have read a LOT of books, spoken to a LOT of people and pretty much searched for information in hundreds of divers places (even books from other religions). Through it all, I have made SEVERAL "Books of Shadow" I learned ONE thing through all that. Keep only ONE BOS as your FINAL edition and ONLY put into THAT what YOU want to keep from all of your sources. Have other BOS's though to add and change material as your needs develop and change over time.

It can be hard to find reliable information. The BEST bet is to use several different sources that deal with the subject that you wish to learn about and pcik the material that TRULY speaks to YOU. Teachers and Covens are NICE, but then you run the risk of being "force fed" Dogma, THEIR dogma. The search CAN be tedious, confusing, and lead you down a lot of dead ends. The WISE Witch gathers as much as can be gathered and then sits for a while and meditates on EVERYTHING that was colected. Ask Goddess to guide you and to help you filter out the stuff that you CAN'T use. Whatever is left over that you CAN use, THEN put your OWN energy and ides into it and refine it to exactly what you need. This especially works well for Rituals and Spells. The BEST Rituals and Spells are the ones that YOU, yourself have developed and composed on your own, using what you already have learned.

Witchcraft is NOT somethng that IS universal. Every Witch has his/her OWN way of doing things, Even in a coven setting. As for teachers, there are some very good teachers who have been practicing for only a few years but MOST good teachers have been practicing for 20 years or more. However don't let their length of time be the determining factor in a selection. Choose a teacher who is knowledgeable about the Tradition that YOU follow. Choose one with whom YOU can easily establish a GOOD, smooth rapport. One who doesn't insist that it be done his/her way but insists on YOU doing it YOUR way.

The BEST witches RARELY refer to their BOS's for rituals or Spells. They may use a little card to keep the general skeleton of the ritual or spell in order but tend to use the actual wording straight from their hearts and Spirits. For those witches no two rituals or spells are EVER exactly alike and every one of them is unique, relevant to the time and has deeper meaning than just following the words as written down on paper. Godess andGod LOVE those kinds of folks because every single word has direct meaning to BOTH the Witch and Deity and is NOT just words that are mindlessly being read. The words THEN have total and complete relevance to the task at hand, and there IS meaning and energy imbued with every single syllable. A good teacher will be stressiing to you the NEED for you to do that. In coven work, it's a bit different. ALL the celebrants have to form a cohesive body and "pool" their energies and meanings in order to give the desired results more strength. If just ONE member of the circle is "daydreaming" it can take away from that unified strength and make it all ineffective. This is why MOST witches prefer to be solitary. The overall strength may not be there but it is more than made up for in the absolute FOCUS of the individual..

As for the REDE being a recent invention, take my word for it, it is NOT. Maybe the wording is recent but the PRINCIPLE is as ancient as Witchcraft itself (thousands of years). BUT even the REDE as it exists today originates with the founding Witches of the neopagans. Dereen Valiente, the original author of the Modern Rede, WAS one of those founding Witches adn as such should NOT be discounted. It was NOT developed to make it "palatable" to outsideres. it exists to serve as the Moral backbone to our Religion. The principle of the REDE existed even in ancient times. The Basic Rede, Harm none, has been the foundation of Witchcraft since before the time of Christianity. It was simple common sense to cause no harm. When harm was caused by the witch, then the Witch ASLO was harmed. OK, so maybe the REST of the Modern REDE is an invention BUT the principle of causing no harm IS the most ancient and sacrosanct of ALL of our beliefs.

Hope this helps a little bit, Gnostic. :). Sorry for delaying this answer but I was involved in something else.

Brightest Blessings,
Raji the Green Witch

Answer 2

I know it can be difficult and frustrating but it can be beautiful and rewarding as well. It's hard to find concrete answers because paganism is a spiritual path of diversity. There are no concrete answers. Some things are simply different for each person, some are different for each path.

As you mentioned even the Rede is controversial among pagans. And for some it is considered a basic rule.

You do not have to be alone though. Check out meetup.com they may have groups you can have some wonderful discussions with. Check local pagan shops in your area for bulletins or classes. Of course if all else fails you can join a pagan list on yahoogroups and join in the conversations there. They are not all good but the some groups can be amazing.

Answer 3

To me it is as as simple as living during the time when we're changes ages. The Piscean Age, is an age of institutions, and the major organized religions, especially, Islam & Christianity are major representations of that energy. The divine is reached through an intermediary, i.e. Jesus.

The Aquarian Age is more about individuals and groups. The individual is able to access the divine on their own. Find their own path.

Current generations have one foot in the Piscean Age and one foot in the Aquarian Age. Modern day pagans are finding their way into the "new age" and yet it's difficult not to measure ourselves against the yardstick of the old Piscean Age.

I too have found it difficult to live without the structure of a "religion" and found many frustrations in dealing with the new age groups applying rigid thinking to these free flowing energies. I have experienced groups coming together and falling apart many times in my life. Being a solitary practitioner has been my answer in recent years. That and the acceptance that all paths lead to the divine.

Lately I have found a wonderful, loving online pagan community at Care2 - Pagans. All different types of pagans share and support each other there. It is a learning and supportive environment.

Bright Blessings to you all!

Answer 4

in the 1400's the catholics desided to have a great big inqusition, all over europ. That involved the persiqution, torture, and exicution of every one who practiced any kind of belife other then christion. By the 1600's when the last of the inqusitions had stoped there were only rummors and one or two really old people who knew about the pagan ways. The Church destoryed almost all of the documents on paganism although there weren't many cause before the printing press the only people who were literate were preists and nobles and all the pagans were pesants as the word pagan means country people. The reason there isen't alot of info on paganism is cause not alot is known, most of it comes from the mysics in the 1920's, who I am fairly sure were con artists... So if you want to know about paganism you are more likely to find relyable info in an anthropology test book then in anything writen by a so called pagan cause most pagans today just make it up as they go along, but I guess you can do that if it makes you happy cause there are many paths and they all go to the same place I think... Good luck, I understand your frustration, I felt frustrated too and became a baha'i which is monotheistic as oposed to the pollythism of paganism but I figure oneness is good eh?

Answer 5

I really think you have to study at the tradition level to get quality information... change has to start from the top. Until the publishing revolution started, Pagan books had to be Llewellyn or Weiser, and that really hurt a lot of people...
We got the Wicca fit for publishing, for example....Least Common Denominator.

Not that all trads are equal, but finding people who've studied 10, 20, 30, 40 years can make a difference. An author a few years ago put out a book stating that her source of expertise was her FIVE YEARS experience....seriously....and there were people who went OMG! 5YEARS!

Look at the Stephanich and Witta nonsense that happened, for example..... That was terrible for the whole community....SLOWLY, SLOWLY people are realizing that things like plagiarism and lying REALLY hurt people....

Now you have a bunch of tiny presses that are swearing they are going to change the way it's done, and I think that will make a difference.

But, we don't have Popes, so there's little we can do. The Frosts, for example, have been being protested since their ads in Rolling Stone, and for good reason, and now they can just say they've been doing it for 40 years....and they're not lying, but they haven't FIXED the problems.

Edit: By the way, I think Hutton's Triumph of the Moon made a huge difference. Before it came out, I could count on one hand the Wiccan traditions not teaching Wicca as an ancient religion....not most of them don't, so ONE person CAN make a difference.

Answer 6

Among heathens, we say two main things about ourselves:

"Ask any three heathens the same question, and you'll get at least five contradictory opinions."

"All online discussion of heathenry may be summarized by the following two assertions:
1. You ain't the boss of me.
2. You're not doing that right."

And, just to prove the points, I can't think of a *single* modern "how to" on Asatru, Theodism, or heathenry that I could wholeheartedly recommend. In the broader and even more diverse realm of paganism, Starhawk's "Spiral Dance" (which I haven't read) seems to be regarded as seminal, and Margot Adler's "Drawing Down the Moon" (which I have) seems to be regarded as reasonably comprehensive, if a tad dated. I'd say Harner's "Way of the Shaman" has been pretty influential as well.

But there's a preference for real scholarship by actual scholars among heathens that I think more pagans should consider . . . for example, Campbell's "The Power of Myth" and "The Hero With 1000 Faces," H.R. Ellis Davidson's "Myths & Symbols of Pagan Europe," Paul Bauschatz's "The Well & The Tree," Stephen Pollington's "The Mead Hall" and Kathleen Herbert's slim but mighty "Looking For the Lost Gods of England" are all things straight off my "heathen" bookshelf that I think would add historical depth and new insights to ANY pagan tradition.

Answer 7

I'm sure you are well aware you can't herd cats. LOL

Anyway, I think a lot of it is that people will not look into the history of Paganism. They will simply read what some may call light books. History is usually boring unless you really want to understand it.

We got people who are simply in it because they don't know where else to be. Or the ones who want to impress others on how different they are.

As for books there are books that I wouldn't read again but I really don't want to tell someone else it's not a good book. The other person may get more out of it than I did or I may get more out of a book than them. I believe all books have wisdom that can be found if we look for it. It's just in the perspective of the reader.

For some history this is a good book. "TOWARDS AN ACADEMIC STUDY OF BRITISH WICCA"
AN INVESTIGATION INTO ITS ORIGINS
Dissertation by Jo Harrington M.A

Yes I know it's British Wicca but this is good infrormation. She had many of the big name Pagans read over it for her.

You can find it here. (just scroll down the page.)
http://www.witchcraftshop.co.uk/store/index.php?CatID=0193

Answer 8

Every one has an author or 2 they like more than others, so that might help explain the putting down some books.
Unless you find a group, weather local or online, that has a solid set of beliefs and pratices, you will keep on getting many diffrent opinions on the same topic.
If you want someone to teach you, I would recommend finding out if your local pagan/ new age /occult shop brings in people to teach on diffrent topics each month. Or if the shop owner / workers would be willing to help you out.
One more thought, are you focusing on one particular path of paganism? If so find a group or books on that path to better guide you.
Hoped this helped even a little. Good luck!

Answer 9

I think the same thing could be said about Christianity. Christianity and Paganism are both umbrella terms for a group of religions that share some core beliefs and or principles, but they are by no means monolithic.

Many Christian groups are "flamed" by each other. Just look at the Catholic/Protestant divide. Additionally you have Christian sects squabbling over the trinity, Christology, and baptism by immersion vs sprinkling. You also have the more conservative Christians lambasting liberal Christians and Fundamentalists blasting mainline denominations as being "lukewarm".

Among Pagans, there are many different "denominations" for lack of a better word. "Fluffy Bunny" wiccan seems to me the main "flame" I see being tossed around amoungst Pagans, but I am sure there is even more squabbling and in-fighting amoungst Pagans that I am not aware of.

Answer 10

Welcome to the world of Fluff Bunnies,Plaguns and Wannabe Witches!

There are very few books or people who teach reliable information about Magick and general Paganism because most are making it up as they go. You must decide one day to either apprentice yourself or join a coven to truly learn. The concept that we are not a book religion should perk your ears up and explain that we are the religion and we are the Pagan.

If you are not active in environmental causes, street clean up, whale saving, recycling, alternative energy... you are not a good Pagan. Believe in the fight and fight for what you believe in. It is hard to say but I see a need where we Pagans will have to stop dancing around bonfires because of the need to cut down on the smoke. This is a great spot for some creative Pagan to come up with gas bonfire logs. They call necessity the "Mother" of invention for some reason.

Maybe people who are considered the real deal need to write curriculum for teachers to present at Gatherings. But you still run into the need to set a standard of what Paganism and witchcraft are about.

Answer 11

From what I know about paganism, it's because paganism is very diverse. I'm not really a pagan myself, but I've read books about it.

Paganism comes from many sources around the world. And there is no formal book--such as the Bible--about paganism