Since the Catholic Church decided what was truly scripture and what wasn't...?

Question

On what basis do fundies accept the canon of the New Testament? I mean, if the Catholic Church is wrong about so many other things, couldn't it have been wrong about what books were truly inspired?

Meg...Congratulations, welcome home!

meshugga .. lol. thank you for that.

Looks like a few need a short history course.

It was not until the Council of Carthage (397) and a subsequent decree by Pope Innocent I that Christendom had a fixed New Testament canon. Prior to that date, scores of spurious gospels and "apostolic" writings were floating around the Mediterranean basin: the Gospel of Thomas, the "Shepherd" of Hermas, St. Paul's Letter to the Laodiceans, and so forth. Moreover, some texts later judged to be inspired, such as the Letter to the Hebrews, were controverted. It was the Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, which separated the wheat from the chaff.

Answer 1

One would think.

Ops, did I say 'think' in reference to a fundie? My Bad.

All things should be questioned... believing what you are told without double-checking it is the first step in the wrong direction.

Answer 2

They would probably base it on tradition... ops, but they don't believe in that.

Did you ever notice that Fundamentalism came about at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century, exactly after liberal protestantism had denied the divine aspect of scripture? So, in other words, Fundamentalism is an extreme fidestic response to the over-rationalistic historical criticism of the Bible used by liberal protestantism (Bultmann etc) and those interested in denying biblical inspiritation (rationalists).

Within the Catholic Church, one had to watch out for such extremes too. Providentissimus Deus of Leo XIII was written to warn against over rationalism with a materialistic and immanentistic philosophical premise. Divino Aflante Spiritu of Pius XII was written to warn against an over-fideistic spiritualistic approach. For more information read the document by the Pontifical Biblical Commission on The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church (April 15, 1993).

Answer 3

The canon of the Old Testament that Catholics use is based on the text used by Alexandrian Jews, a version known as the "Septuagint" and which came into being around 280 B.C. as a translation of then existing texts from Hebrew into Greek by 72 Jewish scribes .

The deuterocanonical books were, though, debated in the early Church, and some Fathers accorded them higher status than others (hence the Catholic term for them: "deuterocanonical," or what St. Cyril of Jerusalem called "secondary rank," as opposed to the other books which are called "protocanonical"). But all the Fathers believed as did St. Athanasius, who, in one of his many Easter letters, names the 22 Books all Christians accept and then describes the deuterocanonicals as "appointed by the Fathers to be read by those who newly join us, and who wish for instruction in the word of godliness." Church Councils listed and affirmed the present Catholic canon, which was only formally closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century.

In the 16th c., Luther, reacting to serious abuses and clerical corruption in the Latin Church, to his own heretical theological vision ,see articles on sola scriptura and sola fide, and, frankly, to his own inner demons, removed those books from the canon that lent support to orthodox doctrine, relegating them to an appendix. Removed in this way were books that supported such things as prayers for the dead (Tobit 12:12; 2 Maccabees 12:39-45), Purgatory (Wisdom 3:1-7), intercession of dead saints (2 Maccabees 15:14), and intercession of angels as intermediaries (Tobit 12:12-15). Ultimately, the "Reformers" decided to ignore the canon determined by the Christian Councils of Hippo and Carthage and resort solely to those texts determined to be canonical at the Council of Jamnia.

It is the Church that is the "pillar and ground of Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)! Jesus did not come to write a book; He came to redeem us, and He founded a Sacramental Church through His apostles to show us the way. It is to them, to the Church Fathers, to the Sacred Deposit of Faith, to the living Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit, and to Scripture that we must prayerfully look.
Luther wanted to remove the Epistle of James, Esther, Hebrews, Jude and Revelation. Calvin and Zwingli also both had problems with the Book of Revelation, the former calling it "unintelligible" and forbidding the pastors in Geneva to interpret it, the latter calling it "unbiblical".

This Council, among other things, simply affirmed the ancient accepted books in the face of Protestant tinkering. How could Luther have relegated the deuterocanonical books to an appendix if they hadn't already been accepted in the first place?

Answer 4

Exactly. The kicker here is that many of the things that Protestants believe are wrong about the Catholic Church follow from one of two things.

The first is translation errors into English (this is why many Protestants believe that Jesus had siblings).

The second is that Protestants exclude the Apochrypha. Many believe that Catholics actually added these books in the 1500s -- but in fact, it is Protestants who excluded them. And the reason is incredible -- it is because early Bible printers couldn't get the copyright to print these extra books!

The Catholic Bible was set in the 4th century at the Council of Rome and has not changed since then. The Protestant Bible has gone through many changes.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Look at all the people here who are denying this! They obviously know very little about the history of their own religions!!!!!!!!!

Answer 5

You are absolutely right about the current cannon, only to be revised by Luther to eliminate those books that did not according to him, seam inspired. He was one man against a group of theologians who until the Council of Trent, did not resolute the Biblical Cannon, but they accepted all that was in the original selection, with no exceptions.
I do have one thing though to say about the use of the term 'fundies',I know that a lot of non Catholics get on here and continue to bash us, but are we to lower out standards just to belittle others, I think not.
Love thy neighbor, but start with thine enemy. It is much easier to love those we love.
God bless you and thanks for making a great point.

Answer 6

The issue of Biblical Authority rests on the Authority of the Church. There is no honest way around that.

Answer 7

Great question. And one of the reasons that I left the "bible" church I was attending. Too many things that they cannot answer with truth.

Answer 8

Absolutely! Not only could the catholics be wrong, but the people who wrote the bible could have been wrong.

Many of the books in the bible are simply poems (psalms) or letters that were written by people like ourselves.

More so.....many of the writings were written years after the events took place. The stories were passed on by mouth and then years later someone decided to write down the accounts as they remember them being told to them..... Kinda like playing the telephone game. How much is actual fact?

Don't get me wrong...I am a christian, but I take the Bible for what it is.

Answer 9

Great question! That was one of the reasons I left Protestantism.

Answer 10

First of all the Catholic church did not decide what would be included in the scriptures, at least not alone.

They were included in the decades long process of selection, and in the end, they pulled out of the process and produced their own version which is exactly like the King James version, but with a few historical books included. Now it is important to note, that even in the catholic version that these added books are indicated as historical documents right in the headings.

But back to your main question, the bible was put together over many decades, with many different people authenticating and voting over many years of what should and should not be included. The Catholic church was involved, but not in charge.

In the end, they pulled out of the process and published their own version.

God and God alone decided what was to be in the bible, not the catholic church nor any other single church. It seems that you are giving the Catholic church a bit more power than should be given of a human group of people.