Christians insist that reincarnation doesn't happen so why did Jesus say John the Babtist was Elias?

Question

For your reference:
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

This was after the disciples asked who John was.

For your reference:
Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come.

This was after the disciples asked who John was.

Edit:
I've heard people preach against Astrology all my life but the Magi were Astrologers and wouldn’t have found Jesus if it weren’t for the very method now condemned by Christians. If they could be wrong about Astrology they could certainly be wrong about reincarnation.

I think you’re referring to the two witnesses in Revelation. So what does it mean Elias in spirit verses Elias incarnate? Wouldn’t I get laughed out of the church if I claimed to be the spirit of Napoleons shoe shine boy?

In fact couldn’t Napoleons Shoe Shine boy be a type of me that was to come, you know in my spirit, or I’m in the spirit of the Shoe Shine boy that was to come.

In other words I’m hearing no definition for a statement that Jesus seemed concerned about making, “if you receive it” tells me he didn’t think they had the spiritual maturity to comprehend it and they went on to set up the dogma that is now the church. In fact in the verse after the Jesus says “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” Another attempt to get people to know that they have to expand their philosophy a bit to grasp what he’s saying. I think he knew it was over their heads, and that it would be lost in translation through the ages. What a dark generation today’s Christians have become.

You have said that Elija didn't die but it clearly states in Genesis that Moses died and that God buried him in a secret place. So moses died, wouldn't he have to be reincarnated to be one of the two witnesses? Perhaps this guy is the other witness: Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him. But Enoch didn't do much historicaly except be buddies with God and get taken without death. I think the reincarnation concept should be reconsidered.

Thank you for your participation, I gota get to sleep now.

Ok so:
Malachi 4:5-6 5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and fearful day of LORD comes.

This doesn't say something similar to Elijah and Jesus didn't say no this wasn't Elijah it's Elijah lite with only half the calories. So either it's true or false. It doesn't surprise me that John would deny it and not be lying because almost no one remembers their past lives. But Jesus the guy you call God the all knowing said for all practical purposes "Look this is hard to follow but Johns Elijah. You just have to trust me on this." Modern Christians crack me up. It's like no mater what the master of the Universe says it doesn't fit our view so Johns a spirit of Elijah. Basicaly the modern Church calls Jesus a liar.

Good Job.

Jesus was a great teacher, and there are many spiritual lessons that have been crushed since his execution. The Cathars were a Gnostic group that was so appealing Rome declared war on them commiting mass murder. I'm a practicing Wiccan now but my first true faith was Gnosticism whose principles I still draw faith from. Their teachings weren't that different from Wicca.

So I was first a Heritic then a Witch. The church may dislike me for my Witchcraft but they truely hate me for my Heracy.

I just embrace the disgrace and remember that better people then I were put to death for these same arguments. In their memory and love of all things good I'll remember what they taught.

Bless you all.

Answer 1

WOW. I have never thought of some of these statements this way before. "He that hath ears let him hear" was put in a totally new perspective for me today and you have given me a new way to go back and look at the bible.

I have always felt that the bible had a great message spiritually to share and that the stories and lessons were good ones. However the religion itself has become so twisted in today's world and the way that it has been interpretted over the centuries is so one sided and final that I just could not continue in that religion. I still would not choose Christianity but this whole conversation is allowing me the ability to reintegrate the Bible into my spiritual studies.

Sorry I have not real answer but if you ask me it sounds like a reincarnation statement. Unless Jesus was simply renaming John but why then would John deny that?

Answer 2

I interpret Jesus as announcing that a determine like Elijah will get ready the way in which for the Messiah. Malachi the prophet: "Behold, I will ship you Elijah the prophet earlier than the approaching of the quality and dreadful day of the Lord and he shall flip the guts of the fathers to the kids, and the guts of the kids to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse" (four:five-6). John the Baptist got here to arrange the way in which of the Lord. He explicitly denied that he was once the reincarnation or reappearance of Elijah (John a million:21). Rather, he was once enjoyable the prophesied function of an Elijah-like determine. Cheers, Bruce

Answer 3

In the three scripture below all the information needed is shown! The prophecy in Malachi showed what this prophet should do. The interpretation of this prophecy the Bible gives in the next two scriptures!

thus John came in Elijah's power and with the same kind of spirit Elijah had been given. Jesus himself revealed in the last scripture that this was indeed that prophecy's fulfillment.

Bible ACV:
Malachi 4:5-6 5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and fearful day of LORD comes. 6And he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the sons, and the heart of the sons to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.


Luke 1:17 17And he will go ahead, in front of him, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn back the hearts of fathers toward children, and the disobedient in a mentality of the righteous, to make ready for Lord a people prepared.

Matthew 17:11-13 11And having answered, Jesus said to them, Elijah indeed comes first, and will restore all. 12But I say to you, that Elijah already came, and they knew him not, but did to him how many things they wanted. Likewise also the Son of man is going to suffer by them. 13Then the disciples understood that he spoke to them about John the immerser.

Answer 4

Reincarnation keeps people from tracking the spirits which are central to the conflict between good and evil and those spirits which advance time. Reincarnation does not explain the hidden things of the Bible. As it is written. It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment.

The taking on of theophany bodies is not reincarnation any more than is demonic possession. Those spirits are not appearing for an education; or a learning experience; their destiny and purpose is fixed.

Answer 5

Fascinating. Absolutely Fascinating!! I'm enjoying this discussion. NOT ONLY the question but MOST of the answers as well. An old man CAN learn something new. Even if it has NO personal religious meaning to ME directly, it's NICE to see how some of your minds work. Thanks so much.

Brightest Blessings,
Raji the Green Witch

Answer 6

John said himself the he was not Elijah.

John 1:19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, "Who are you?" 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, "I am not the Christ." 21 And they asked him, "What then? Are you Elijah?" He said, "I am not." "Are you the Prophet?" And he answered, "No."


Jesus said that if they were able to accept it that John was the Elias or Elijah to come. Elijah didn't die, and also the Bible says that John came in the spirit and power of Elijah. John was a type of Elijah but apparently the original Elijah is not going to return until before Jesus comes the second and final time.

2 Kings 2:9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Ask what I shall do for you, before I am taken from you." And Elisha said, "Please let there be a double portion of your spirit on me." 10 And he said, "You have asked a hard thing; yet, if you see me as I am being taken from you, it shall be so for you, but if you do not see me, it shall not be so." 11 And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Many theologians think that Moses and Elijah will be the 2 witnesses in the Book of Revelation because of the powers that they have and because they met up with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.

Revelation 11:3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. 6 They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire.

The wise men probably knew about Jesus' coming because of what was passed along to them from Daniel, and the "star" that they saw seemed to be a light that was not a natural star.

Daniel 2:48 Then the king gave Daniel high honors and many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon and chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon.

Matthew 2:9- After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy.

What Jesus meant about John has to do with Jesus knowing that He wasn't going to finish his mission on his first visit. He was saying that He was the Messiah and that if the people would have accepted Him as such then John would have been the equivalent of Elijah but that since God knows all things He didn't send the actual Elijah back to earth for this first visit of Jesus.

Answer 7

He was getting at Elias was to come

JC simply said this is the Elias that was to come it did not directly mean reincarnation

It was like a character poeple waited for and JC said well buddy this is the one like or not

Answer 8

No, he was not speaking of the "soul" of Elias but the spirit. That is not reincarnation.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Reincarnation.asp