Here is one for the ID/creationism proponents who think a "fine-tuned universe" exists?

Question

I often see you guys go on and on about this "finely tuned universe". Let's examine that idea. I will use the card game bridge as an example.

When one is dealt a bridge hand of thirteen cards, the probability of being dealt that particular hand is less than one in 635 billion. Yet, it would be absurd for someone to be dealt a hand, examine it carefully, and exclaim, “wow, the odds against getting these exact cards are 635 billion to 1. I couldn’t possibly have been dealt this hand by chance. There must have been supernatural intervention.”

That is the fallacy of this idea. The assumption that the universe and world as it exists was a predetermined outcome. This is not the case. It is what it is because that’s the thirteen cards that were dealt. 635 billion to 1 against getting those exact cards, but 1 to 1 odds that 13 cards would be dealt and you would get something.

Sol: way to miss the point. We're talking about perception and odds. If you wish to take it literally, you look the fool, not I.

didnotknow: "why does a planet have to orbit the sun" - We call it gravity. Look into it sometime.

Theopneustos: what a surprise! Another theist who last looked at a biology book in 1960 and who harps on the transitional fossils like they were his last straws (missing the fact that we have plenty of transitional fossils). And as a bonus you (willfully?) misunderstand scientific theory! Good on you! God must be so proud!

Cricket, you too missed the point. It's not the numbers, it is the underlying assumption.

Answer 1

I think you're missing the point of intelligent design. That's an interesting analogy, but...okay. Bear with me for a second.

The conservative estimate of the fine-tuning of the universe is one in 100 million billion billion billion billion billion billion. That would be one hundred followed by 53 zeroes. 635 billion doesn't even come CLOSE.

Now, what throwing away the idea of God means is that not only did the universe just HAPPEN, but it HAPPENED to be able to contain life. It just HAPPENED to have a planet that was exactly the right distance from the sun, with exactly the right tilt and speed of spin, with exactly the right atmosphere, exactly the right size, with the exact right amount of water...and with irreducibly complex organisms. The list goes on and on.

What it's equal to is getting that SAME bridge hand 10 million billion billion billion billion billion billion times. Now, if that happened, I would start to think that maybe somebody was manipulating the deck. Wouldn't you?

There were certainly a LOT of things that just HAPPENED to be right in our universe, in our solar system. That, my friend, is why people believe in intelligent design.

Edit: I think the point of my answer was missed as well. It has EVERYTHING to do with numbers.

Answer 2

via fact somebody is making an attempt oh, so complicated to sound smart, viz.: - the place did time, area and count come from for the bing bang - the place did the ability come from to make it bypass bang? - How did the comprehensive universe extra healthful into some thing the dimensions of an atom? - How did residing come from non-residing? - What did the 1st one celled organism consume? - What did the 1st one celled organism reproduce with? - How did male/lady genders evolve? - How does organic determination create? - Why does evolution violate the regulation of thermodynamics? indexed right here are my solutions: a million) Time and count did no longer exist formerly the huge bang as such. area-time did no longer exist till AFTER the enlargement of the universe from a element source (it incredibly is how I understand the huge Bang). 2) Ever hear of the regulation of conservation of mass-power? It can't be created or destroyed. This, for sure, is a statistical regulation. however the ability became there, and it did no longer would desire to return from everywhere. it incredibly is in basic terms creationists that have a topic with endless regression. 3) it incredibly is talked approximately as a singularity. length does no longer advise something whilst it includes singularities via fact singularities with the help of definition don't have quantity. 4) There are various theories, no longer all of which i'm incredibly acquainted with. Scientists have already controlled to duplicate the easy amino acids for existence in a laboratory from the scratch of uncomplicated organic and organic compounds. 5) Who knows? it incredibly is in basic terms a pitiful attempt to sound smart. it incredibly is, as you're saying, a smoke demonstrate screen. 6) heavily? Even i'm no longer that unaware of biology. One-celled organisms reproduce with the help of cloning themselves. they do no longer reproduce sexually. 7) i don't comprehend. yet we've an exceptionally stable theory of why. 8) with the help of removing those organisms that are no longer a stable extra healthful for their ecosystem. they simply do no longer stay to tell the tale to reproduce. 9) It does not violate thermodynamics. residing issues are open structures. They take power from the encompassing ecosystem. the 2d regulation of thermodynamics is for CLOSED structures.

Answer 3

I have been watching your arrogant posts for some time now. You even choose an icon which is intended to offend others.

Well Mr. Quantitative analysis---Where are all the millions of transitional life form fossil records that would be needed in order to support a wide scale evolution? Shouldn't the earth be littered with them?
And since what you believe is so scientific---what does the word theory mean? Is it hypothesis based on some facts? But not fact itself right?
So I will just say-------prove to me evolution is an absolute fact, and I will have no choice but to believe. But until then---I choose belief in God, for he has shown me proof in my life and in the lives of others of His unquestionable existence.

Dear Mr Know it all, in your omniscience can you tell me what was the last two links in evolution going in reverse from mankind backward---and how many fossil remains there are to support your answer. Hear from you in a year or not at all.
And what was the very first living cell in existence in the universe---and what made it alive?
These should be very easy questions for someone of your unquestionable intellect.






.

Answer 4

You mean the very same cards that wouldn't exist if God hadn't created the universe, the necessary materials and the people to make them? Lol. The universe as we know it and life can hardly be compared to a hand of cards.

Edit: "The *fool* says in his heart: there is no God".

And yes, I am perfectly aware of what an analogy is, only I find that one ridiculous for reasons that "The Cricket" has expanded on. I'm just not as willing as she is to go into detail because as your heart is obviously hardened, I don't see much point. Hopefully I am wrong and you will eventually have an encounter with God. When a person has seen God in action in their lives and that of others, and the power in His very name, the "odds" of his being the Creator becomes 1:1.

"arrogant bastard": Well, I guess your name says it all. When you're done basking in the glow of your imagined superiority, perhaps you will realize that many creationists do study science, and many ARE scientists. Try reading "The Science of God", for starters. My sister, a professor, is a Christian and makes a living working with numbers, statistics and probabilities.

Answer 5

"1 to 1 odds that you'd get something"

Good analogy but I think it's wasted on people who believe the shite that is ID.

I'll remember this one though.

Edit: lol, Sol doesn't even understand what an analogy is, let alone why you're comparing cards to the universe. Proved my point entirely. Sorry man.

Answer 6

I doubt most creationists understand probability or statistics well enough to remotely comprehend the complexity of the universe. It's much easier to say "Gawd did it" than read a science textbook.

Answer 7

so you base everything on odds, or luck, why does a planet have to orbit the sun does it need a sun tan.

Answer 8

You just take a chance and walk in front of the next car if you believe in chance that is.

Answer 9

Wow. You are smart.

Carl is just too dumb for words.