Theists, Have you ever made a good argument using logic?

Question

You cut and paste half the Bible as your undisputable proof for your beliefs, but, Atheists seem to make their arguments much stronger using their own imagination and intelligence. You seem to be lacking these qualities.

You cut and paste half the Bible as your undisputable proof for your beliefs, but, Atheists seem to make their arguments much stronger using their own imagination and intelligence. You seem to be lacking these qualities.

Brent Y – Thumbs up
Jared D – Thumbs up
1x1x1x,,, - If you don’t see the question, forget it… and sorry, I don’t want to be your pen pal.
Betty Boop… Sorry, I don’t understand your response
Starjumper – Using Da Vinci like that would be a stronger argument for believing in the theories of gravity and evolution. I see your train of thought, but the train is just sitting at the station. Your logic is fallacious. I don’t know if Da Vinci’s existence can be scientifically proven, however, the theories of gravity and evolution have been proven beyond any reasonable persons doubt, and that kinda nullifies the intelligent design thing.
Allahdevil – Sorry, I don’t have time, and I don’t know what that would prove. Weak answer overall

Iswd1 – Thanks for watching the store. Good job. Thumbs up.
Bob W. – Pascal sounds like he was just hedging his bet. Too many ifs for a logical argument. If you want to trivialize your experience with consciousness, go ahead, but I enjoy exploring the mystery with my imagination too much to sell out to a hypocritical, self-serving, and cowardly fairy tale that was written to appeal to a bunch of ignorant peasants thousands of years ago.
Jewishgirl – I don’t hate you. I like crazy chicks. If you were in the line of beasts when Adam was looking for a mate…who knows? Maybe he wouldn’t have had to lose a rib.
Gratvo – The majority of people do believe in one of the three Abrahamic religions. Christians use the Bible more often than the Muslims or Jews to “prove” their point. And beware, Jewishgirl might find your name calling hateful and unimaginative.

Rahl404 – Science doesn’t claim to have all of the answers. The ones they have are at least believable and not self-serving. Religion claims to have all the answers, and none of them are close to rational. Worse, they dispute theories like evolution, which is a big contradiction to creationism. Science offers undisputable fact upon fact for its position. Religion offers the fairytales outlined in the big book of fallacies; the Bible, which theists are constantly citing as irrefutable facts, though one must have faith, and an overactive imagination based on fear and greed.
Jacemonster – In answer to “why not?” I can’t. I won’t keep telling myself that the earth is flat either. Any God who says I must believe in the unbelievable or else, is basically telling me to trivialize my experience and dumb down my imagination. I refuse. If there is a god who concerns “himself” with the likes of humans, I can’t believe “he” would place “his” creations in such an irrational paradox.

Karen F - What makes you feel that you are so much more important than the billions of people who have suffered to a much greater extent than you can even imagine without their prayers ever being answered? I think you are just plain lucky. Are you still going to remain so faithful and confident when a really big catastrophic affects your life? I see so many people just like you who think that for some reason a god finds your concerns more important than the concerns of others. If you’re so effective at prayer, why don't you solve world hunger or the AIDS epidemic?

Gratvo - I gorgot to mention, you write, "... your an idiot." That should be, "... you're an idiot." =)

Alleninthehills – With so much irrationality, I hardly know where to begin. You’re obviously a very confused individual. (You’re not alone) Atheists don’t believe in fantasies. Atheists fully admit that they don’t know the eternal secrets of the universe. Therefore, they use their imagination to wonder and appreciate this grand illusion. They don’t trivialize the experience with silly, childish stories that could only be believed by an ignorant peasant thousands of years ago, or a six year old child in this day. Nor do they make up silly stories to try to explain this experience. When you use capitol letters and unnecessary spaces to enunciate your words you are conveying emotion. In other words, you think you’re making an air tight argument, but, you are actually just giving away the fact that you are more emotional than rational. However, I appreciate your attempt (as lame as it may be) to argue your view without boring me with any Bible or Koran quotes.

(continued) - You attack evolution as though it was the most ridiculous theory humans have ever come up with, yet you have no trouble believing in talking snakes, boats with all of the species living on the planet aboard, parting seas, a jealous and vengeful God, and I could go on for a lot longer but, I think any rational person would have grasped my point by now. I don’t expect that you have though. You are seemingly unable to imagine the possibility of the universe just being without having been created, yet you offer no explanation for God just being without having been created (all by itself). You might think I just made a mistake by saying itself for God, because you think I should have said himself, huh? Why does God have to be a male? That just makes the entire fairy tale that much more ridiculous. Is there a Mrs. God? Does he have sex? With who? Himself?

(continued) - Sorry to disrespect your beliefs, but, your’s and the majority of the population’s beliefs have caused, and are still the reason for more suffering of life on this planet than any other cause. So, yes, I don’t feel obliged to indulge your sarcastic and weak argument with any respect whatsoever. You and every other person who posted a pro-religion response to my question are all just plain ignorant.

Tom T – I find it interesting that you, as a happy Christian, seldom discuss the book your religion is based on with Atheists. You refer to your belief as a bet. Sounds to me like you don’t really believe; you are just trying to fool God by hedging your bet. What have you got to lode right? How about a chance to fully experience your life without being in constant fear? You know, of eternal punishment by the all powerful and loving God who has nothing better to do than watch over you, and consider your prayers? You and the others who think like you are like frightened little children. You think I am revealing the truth of my nature by insulting Theists? Theists, insult my intelligence everyday with their sanctimonious and arrogant attitude. Atheists are the minority, and I, for one am disgusted by a world full of superstitious freaks that treat me like I’m the freak just because I refuse to sell out my experience to an obvious lie. (continued)

(continued) - There is no Heaven and there is no Hell, and you can’t even fathom “forever.” You are correct that neither one of us can prove their point of view. Additionally, I don’t hate you, however, I would hate myself if I were to believe in such an irrational, immoral, and destructive doctrines as those found in any of the Abrahamic religions as well as others. The fear tactics they impose on children are so effective that otherwise rational people can’t shake off the terror throughout the remainder of their lives. You and the vast majority are living proof of this obvious fact.

Answer 1

I had a pretty good argument about sciences "if it can't be seen or measured it does not exist." statement.
I asked for someone to prove to me that Leonardo Da Vinci existed. No one alive today has ever seen him, we only get references of him in Books, and all we see of him are his works...
Do you see my train of thought here?

Answer 2

Any conversation I have ever had with an atheist, the Bible was seldom discussed. My logic is that its like a bet. If they win, all I've lost is a life which I have enjoyed very much as a Christian. If I win, I go to Heaven and they go to h*ll - FOREVER! Let's cut to the chase here and realized that neither side can prove or disprove anything regarding God. So what's the point of atheist hating Christians or the reverse? Where is the logic in that? So, insult theists as you will, it only reveals the truth of your nature.

Answer 3

I'm asuming that u are an atheist(if u are not, then ignore the rest) i am also assuming that u hold the "big bang" to be the most logical reason for the formation of the universe.


the "big bang" theory states that a massive object exploded/expanded into the universe as we see it today. to make this seem logical they had completely disregard a few things.

every object in the universe creates a bend in space time. the more massive, the more it bends space time.

a black hole bends space so much that not even light can escape it. ( the event horizon)

seeing as how this initial massive object was much more massive than a black hole, this would mean that something would have to travel much faster than the speed of light to escape it, or it would just be pulled right back in.

Einstein's theory of special relativity states that nothing can move faster than light.

the scientists who came up with the big bang just completely disregarded this, because it put a stop on the entire big bang theory.

another thing that the scientists seem to completely throw out the window is the question of WHERE IS ALL OF THE ANTI-MATTER?!?!?!?!?

and the biggest question of them all: WHERE DID THIS INITIAL MASSIVE OBJECT COME FROM?!?!?!?!?

Answer 4

I've met and spoken to a few theologists and some indeed do make quite a bit of sense if you really take time to listen.

I'm of the opinion that Theists that choose to debate the reason or plausibility of their beliefs by looking for evidence are not very good Theists. Sorry you ran into these, they give a bad name to the rest of the Theists.

The whole point of Faith is that it is something a person chooses to believe in, regardless of logic or scientific evidences. If we *knew* there was a God, angels and all that, then it wouldn't be called Faith would it? It'd be called science (which is fine to believe in, but hardly the point of religion).

The most convincing argument I've heard in favor for believing in the existence of God is, "Why not?"

Answer 5

How can they make a logical argument when they follow a book with such silly things in it as an apple of knowledge, adam & eve populating the earth (Not to mention, where did all those other people mentioned in genesis come from, they weren't from adam & eve...), people rising from the dead (of course, though, their "modern" medicines did not leave much hope for people who were only in a coma, and thought to be dead)... just stupid crap, and they believe it.

If you are logical, you would see a good story where there is one, but that's about it. You would take what is said in it as "fairy tales" and move on. They can't do this, and they're resorting to quoting from a 2000 year old book that has been translated in so many different ways, depending on who was doing the translating, and what they wanted to achieve in it.

It's all rather sad really.


*****NOTE******** To the person who talked about leonardo...

There is a real difference between honest to goodness history and the bible. Cmon. Leonardo was well documented in his time, and his works still exist today. Where is anything made by Jesus? The shroud they proved was all bunk anyhow? What else? The only book that talks about Jesus is the Bible. How convenient. Your book that you follow, no one elses. Leonardo was known worldwide in his time (At least as far as news could travel) and documented in multiple places/countries. Heck, even by your own church LOL!

Weak argument.

**Another note**

JewishGirl..

You know, when christians tell me all the time that I am going to hell because I don't agree with them? I consider that a hate speach too, so sit back down. Thanks.

As to whoever talked about the majority of theists not believing in the bible, that is hardly evident when so many of you quote from it non-stop, as it is your only weapon against non-believers. Where exactly are you getting your figures from? Have you asked a majority of the theists if they believe in it? I'm curious.

Somehow I doubt you have. You should go sit down with Jewish girl, you two sound like you'd get along.

**Sigh, another note**

Rahl,

Your theory on the big bang is quite different from the one I've grown up on, but I don't really want to debate it right now... What I do want to ask, though you'll probably never read this, is where your god came from?

It is the exact same question I ask all christians who debate the big bang, because like you, they all ask the same thing too, where did it all start?

But you see, there is a difference between faith and science.
Many of us who believe in the big bang and physics in general will admit that we don't have an answer to that question. But christians do not like admitting defeat, moreso than we don't. What was their solution? Come up with a god, and say it was all him that started it, and then discount the fact that they never wrote down where god came from.

The bible really does have so many uses.

Answer 6

You're right, it takes a great imagination to come up with the fantasies atheists believe. I mean just think about it, out of all the billions and billions of planets, circling the billions and billions of stars ours by CHANCE and only by chance "evolved" into what our world is. All by its self, that slime in a pond ( forget the fact of where did the water, slim and for that mater the planet come from) all by its little ol' self, it became bigger slime that turned into a monkey, and a tree, and a snail, and a whale, and a cat in a hat, a l l b y i t ' s s e l f

Answer 7

OK lets look at this logically
Your question is addressed to theists, but you support your assertion by pointing to use of the Bible.

Considering the fact that the Majority of theists on Earth do not believe in the Bible your making a gross generlizaiton about a group of people based on its minority.

In other words I can logicly conclude your an idiot.

Answer 8

OK, so your christian dad beat on you a little too much when you were little. He probably drank too and cheated on your mom. That would logically explain your 5000 word responses to anyone who doesn't agree with you. The fact is, that your religion (atheists) and every other religion, who thinks that they have all of the answers are not logical. It is logical to assume that you have a whole lot of extra time to dwell on things that you can't do anything about. You, my friend, are a waste.

Answer 9

Heh, this is my main gripe with theists. Instead of counter-arguing against my scientific evidence, they throw Bible verses at me and pray for me.

Riddle me this. What if the Bible was never written? Yeah, you'd be worshipping Horus or Dionysus or Mithra, who are each Jesus in a nutshell anyway.

edit: In before a billion Christians remind us that they have faith, and that's something that cannot be proven. Idiots.

Answer 10

RESPOSE TO YOU it has nothing to do with me thinking im more important then the next, it has to do with 1) are these ppl in need praying to him? 2) are they believing that he WILL answer them? not to mention the verse where it says "he turns around for the good those that loves him" i was in an abusive relationship for 6 yrs. he pulled a gun, knife, and sicssors on me, hit, slap, choked, ran into my car with his, you name it he did it. mental, verbal, and made me have sex with him, told me he was gonna kill me. but could he? NO, i know God blocked it! you cant say if what i went through was bad cuz i havent told all my experiences. there is more then that but i just gave 6yrs of it. so if my life was bad would i turn away from him? NO, my life has been BAD! but i feel all these experiences ive had was to help the next person that probably couldnt survive. there are many different shoes ive walked in! ive been hungry, without a job, abused, alcoholic parent, crack head parent, 3 kids im raising by myself, self injurious, wanted to die but scared to kill myself. you know what, even with my life being how it was since a lil girl i still believed, and still loved him. i wasnt serving him, i was living in sin but never denied him. it might have tooken 30 yrs to finally heed the call but i did.

Answer 11

Okay, here's a good logical argument, it's called Pascal's Wager:

Consider these four possibilities:
* If I believe and God exists: I'll be happy for eternity = infinite gain.
* If I believe and God does not exist: I've lost nothing and gained nothing.
* If I do not believe and God exists: I'll be punished for eternity = infinite loss.
* If I do not believe and God does not exist: I've lost nothing and gained nothing.

So, the average expected value of belief: (infinite gain + 0)/2 = infinite gain/2

The average expected value of unbelief: (infinite loss + 0)/2 = infinite loss/2

So, would it not be the intelligent wager to take the option with the expected value of infinite gain/2?