According to the Catholic Athanasian Creed's definition of the trinity...?

Question

..."none is greater or less than another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal." If that is true, why did Jesus say at John 14:28: "The Father is greater than I am"? Also, where in Scripture does it say that all Three are co-equal and co-eternal?

No copy-and-paste answers please.

One hot momma, you did not answer the question.

Answer 1

sadly most religions have similar beliefs. I have just delved further into this subject recently and have found NO evidence supporting a trinity. There are a few instances where they are talked about as "one" but in my mind it is the same as me speaking for myself and significant other. I also have issues with catholoscism as a whole (ie they pray to PEOPLE they call them saints but.....they are PEOPLE...when did God say to do that? Or their beliefs on the afterlife and praying the rosary and praying to "holy Mary, Mother of God"...she wasnt Gods mother she was Jesus' mother and she definitly was NOT holy)....just search your Bible and the truth will find you.

Answer 2

According to your reference of the "Catholic Athanasian Creed's definition" you're right, John 14:28 proves there's no trinity. BUT here's what I find funny.... would that mean you also believe the other things Catholics say? Such as the Virgin Mary always staying a virgin? NO! She and Joseph gave Jesus half brothers and sisters!! What about how they believe a priest can forgive you of your sins? I thought only God could do that?

And it's gotta be a red flag when they have THEIR OWN BIBLE. The Catholic Bible...?

Go ahead and believe the Catholics. I'm sure their definition is the only true definition. I guess you should influence Merriam-Webster to change their definition of it....

Answer 3

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity states that there is one true God made up of three separate but equal persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible does not contain the word Trinity. However, the Holy Trinity is hinted at repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments. For many biblical references, see: http://www.cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/Trinity.txt

Under the influence of the Holy Spirit, the early Christians prayed and struggled over these hints for a couple of centuries. The concept of the Holy Trinity (three equal persons in one God) was mainstream Christianity in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea and our belief is expressed in the Nicene Creed from that council:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. ...

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. ...

This belief is shared by most Christian denominations including Roman and Orthodox Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals and Episcopalians.

With love in Christ

Answer 4

You have to understand the reason for the creed was to disprove other theories like Arianism. Arius (of who Arianism is based off of) was a bishop at the council of Nicaea who stated "basically" that Jesus was a man and not God. (or just made up of similar matter).

Thus this creed was put into place - however some people believe it was written much earlier in history than what is stated.

Now knowing that info - The question is kind of rhetorical.

Answer 5

Sorry for my copy/paste answer, but it explains it better than I could.

2. Jesus: Creature of Creator?

The doctrine that most clearly sets the WTS apart from Christianity is its denial of the divinity of Christ. JWs maintain that Jesus is actually a creature—a highly exalted one at that—but not God himself. Scripturally, the evidence is not in their favor.

John 1:1 states unequivocally, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." This verse gave the JWs tremendous difficulty, and so in their own NWT they render the end of this verse as, "And the word was a god." One great difficulty with this translation is how it contradicts passages such as Deuteronomy 32:39, which says, "I alone, am God and there are no gods together with me." Further contradictions can be seen in Exodus 20:3, "Have no other gods besides me," and Isaiah 43:10, "Before me no god was formed nor shall there be any after me." When a particular translation so clearly opposes other verses in Scripture, one can know immediately that it is inaccurate.

In John 20:28 Thomas says to Jesus, "My Lord and my God." In the original Greek it literally reads, "The Lord of me and the God of me." It would be nothing short of blasphemy for Jesus not to rebuke Thomas if he was wrong. Jesus does nothing of the sort, but instead accepts Thomas’ profession of his identity as God.

The Bible indicates that God alone created the universe (Is. 44:24), and "he that constructed all things is God" (Heb. 3:4). However, Jesus created the heavens and the earth (Heb. 1:10). This passage by itself proves that Jesus is God, since an Old Testament reference to God (Ps. 102:26-28) is now given to him.

In John 8:58, Jesus takes the name of God, "I AM" (Ex. 3:15-18), and applies it to himself. Only God may use this title without blaspheming (Ex. 20:7, Deut. 5:11), and the punishment for someone other than God to use the sacred "I AM" is stoning (Lev. 24:16). Thus in verse 59, Jesus’ audience picked up stones to kill him, because they correctly understood his use of "I AM" as his claim to being God and hence thought he was guilty of blasphemy. This verse also proved to be difficult for the JWs to combat, and so they changed "I AM" to "I have been." The Greek here is ego eimi, which any first-semester Greek student can tell you means "I am." It should also be noted that it would be rather strange for people to stone Jesus for saying that he "had been."

JWs maintain that only Jehovah God may be prayed to. But Stephen prayed to Jesus in Acts 7:59, and so one must conclude that Jesus is God. Otherwise, Stephen blasphemed while filled with the Holy Spirit (7:55). Now the JWs will assert that Stephen was praying as a result of the vision he originally beheld, where he saw God and Jesus in heaven (verse 55). However, verse 58 says that Stephen was dragged out of the city to be stoned, so clearly the vision had ended, for his stoning took place in a different location and at a later time. It is in the context of this later setting when Stephen clearly prays to Jesus that he might "receive [Stephen’s] spirit."

The WTS would have their followers believe that Jehovah and Jesus are necessarily different beings, though the Bible tells another story. Jesus is called Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6, and in the very next chapter the same title is given to Jehovah in verse 21. Other shared titles include: King of Kings (compare with Rev. 17:14), Lord of Lords (Deut. 10:17; Rev. 17:14), the only Savior (Is. 43:10-11; Acts 4:12), the First and the Last (Is. 44:6; Rev. 22:13), the Alpha and the Omega (Rev. 1:8; Rev. 22:13-16), Rock (Is. 8:14; 1 Pet. 2:7-8), and Shepherd (Ps. 23:1; Heb. 13:20-21).

Jesus and Jehovah have much more in common than titles, though. They are both worshipped by angels (Heb. 1:6, Neh. 9:6). They are both unchanging (Heb. 13:8, Mal. 3:6). They both created the heavens and the earth (Heb. 1:10, Neh. 9:6) and are all-knowing (John 21:17, 1 John 3:20). Both give eternal life (John 10:28, 1 John 5:11), and judge the world (John 5:22, Ps. 96:13). To them every knee will bend and every tongue confess (Phil. 2:9-11, Is. 45:23).

Answer 6

The phrase 'none is greater or less than another' is only true when it comes to their divinity. They are equal in their divinity.

However there is much evidence, using Christ's words, that they are not equal in knowledge.

Jesus can only do what the Father shows Him to do, and the Holy Spirit can only speak the words He is told, but they are equal in divinity to God.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth using His Son as the workman, and His Spirit hovered over the waters.

grace2u

Answer 7

well, sorry, but I am copying and pasting, but it is because I think that this should be shown in it's entirity...

The Athanasian Creed

Written against the Arians.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic [i.e., universal, Christian] faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords.

The Father is made of none: neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before or after other; none is greater or less than another; But the whole three Persons are coeternal together, and coequal: so that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped. He, therefore, that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe faithfully the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God of the Substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man of the substance of His mother, born in the world; Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood; Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but one Christ: One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking the manhood into God; One altogether; not by confusion of Substance, but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven; He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty; from whence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give an account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire.

This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Now does this sound anything like what the Bible teaches, or does it sound like the power-play of some very mis-lead humans! I just read through that and it is literally scary! Boy, I am still in shock after that!

~wannaknow~

Answer 8

The Catholics are always making things up to scare the people. This is just one example of how they have said something to people and they have believed it at face value rather than studying and reading for themselves. Remember it was the Catholic church who kept Bibles printed in Latin or Greek so that the regular man couldn't read it for himself. This kept the people under their control. It wasn't until this exclusivity was taken away from the Priests that people started seeing them for what they really are.

Answer 9

Because man doesn't always get it right. I dont follow a mans theory of God. I follow what the Bible says about God and His aspects (Father Son and Holy Spirit) it might be wrong, and God will make me understand more as He sees fit.

Answer 10

Jesus said that He and the Father were one.