Separation of Islam and State? or this is good liberal tollerance?

Question

A San Diego public school has become part of a national debate over religion in schools ever since a substitute teacher publicly condemned an Arabic language program that gives Muslim students time for prayer during school hours.
Carver Elementary in Oak Park added Arabic to its curriculum in September when it suddenly absorbed more than 100 students from a defunct charter school that had served mostly Somali Muslims.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070702-9999-1n2prayer.html

atheist God haters and liberals alike...is this ok because it's not christians? should christians be allowed equal prayer time DURING SCHOOL HOURS???

Answer 1

my other half and i were discussing something similar lately, at work there are a number of muslims who have time off during the day to pray - my partner doesn't and nor does he get to book an extra hour that he has worked that they have not!
i am having trouble saying that they should not pray - if it is their choice then it is not for me to influence that. however, do you change the workign day to accomodate them - you know, 4 or 5 20 min breaks fro everyone and you can use them as you choose?
i would love to see this come about - if islam was a tolerant and peaceful religion - however it is becoming clear that this is not the case more and more so.... i think the answer is.. "when in Rome" ----- or bugger off !
maybe thats harsh.. i don't know, i am, as i said, unsettled as to islam and the intention of its followers - in all honesty... will think on it some more...

Answer 2

School prayer on school property has already been decided by the courts and has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion. We are a nation of laws and the state can not promote any religion.

If there is a need to pray during certain times during the school day, then find a "room" in the school and "rent" it during those times. Any Muslim community would support renting a room so that Muslims may pray to Allah. Moreover, the school committee can (should) be able to find a reasonable place for Muslims to practice their religious duties that does not violate the law.

Prayer during language class would be unfair to any non Muslim taking that class.

I find it unacceptable to quote religious tolerance for this issue, and make any statement about those who obey the law. Christians as well as Muslims must obey the law. If you don' know this, I suggest you read the Qur'an.

Answer 3

I don't think ANY religion should be promoted in school, but it is really funny that all the Christian prayer boosters are outraged by this. This is the kind of endorsement they have been demanding for their own religion all along, now that someone else wants the same thing, they are all in a snit.

Same thing happened with Vacation Bible schools DEMANDING the right to distribute fliers to students via "backpack" mail. They asked the Bush administration to intervene, and they got what they asked for. A Pagan flier and a flier for an atheist soon made it into the backpack mail, and World Nut daily started screeching about it, the good Christian teachers REFUSED to distribute them, and now the school has gone back to the ORIGINAL policy that NO religious or political fliers will go home with the students.

I am not a "God hater" but I do think the public schools should not endorse ANY religion, but radical right wing conservative fundagelicals INSIST on having the public schools sponsor prayer. They will lie and pretend that it is all about EQUAL access, but what they want is SPECIAL ACCESS for themselves only.

Me, I don't want the schools endorsing Muslim, Christian or any other prayer, but I bet you would like to see the schools sponsor Christian prayer and ban all others.

If students want to organize their own prayer times, I don't have a problem with that. But I would extend that right to ALL religions, not just one.

Answer 4

Sorry, you're not scoring points. I'd have to look deeper into this story to sort out exactly what's happening, but here's what I'd allow: Since Muslims are required to pray at certain times of the day, Muslim students would be allowed to leave class at those times and gather together to pray. Christian groups would also be allowed to use school facilities for prayer groups and the like (as, in many cases, they are already allowed to do), but since they have no specific requirements on when they are supposed to meet and/or pray, they would be expected to schedule their events like any other extracurricular activity. And should school time interfere with any other specific religious requirement of the Christians, Muslims, Shintoists, or whatever else, I would make similar arrangements for each.

That fair enough for you? Or are you still upset that some other group is allowed the kind of treatment you usually demand for yourselves?

Answer 5

I see nothing wrong with this. From what I know, Muslims traditionally pray at certain times of the day. If their prayer time coincides with their school time, it makes sense that the school would allow them to pray at a certain time. Notice that the school is not FORCING them to pray.

It would also make sense for a school to allow Christians to pray at certain times, without forcing them to pray, and without disrupting class. Most Christians are not given certain designated times to pray; they can easily pray before school or after school.

This whole anti-school-prayer thing came about, I believe, in the early 1960s, when a mother objected to her son's school, or his teacher, trying to force him to pray. Unfortunately, the pendulum swang too far to the other side.

Now notice that Christians are the majority religion in this country, whereas Islam is not. There is a perceived difference between the majority religion imposing its way upon all, and the dominant culture making room for a minority religion to express itself.

I am a born-again Christian, liberal-leaning, and not an atheist at all. I certainly don't hate God, though sometimes I get angry at him.

Answer 6

Immersion in English will be good for the kids. One day that'll mean one less grad student torturing undergrads by not being able to communicate. I will be kind to my undergrads, but I speak fluent English anyway, so that's not a worry.


And NO, Muslims should not get special prayer time. They have to follow the rules, just like everyone else. They shouldn't get special treatment. I don't want my tax dollars paying for someone to pray.


The reason why setting aside time for everyone else to pray isn't good enough is that not everyone prays. Not everyone believes in prayer. Some of us believe prayer to be harmful because it gives people false hope and detracts from personal responsibility (oh, and it involves believing in something that isn't there), yet we indirectly subsidize this prayer with our taxes.

School prayer is bad.

Answer 7

Arabic language has nothing to do with religion. Two separate issues. And no school should be allowed to have any organized prayer of any kind. Before, during or after school on tax payer's property.

Answer 8

If that would shut them up, then yes.
Take out a few minutes each down so each whiney religion can silently say their prayers, but don't stop instruction for the students who would like to actually learn something useful.
Or, maybe the religious students could do their prayers while they are on a bathroom break?

Answer 9

In my humble opinion; they shouldn't be wasting school time with silly little superstitions. They also shouldn't be teaching in arabic - having someone on hand who can speak arabic isn't bad to help the kids, but they should be being immersed in english.

Answer 10

Why are we importing future terrorists?

Fundie Christians are bad enough. We don't need those ***-backwards muslims here.