Problem with martial arts ranks?

Question

I have noticed a lot of complaints about ranking in this martial arts section.Lets start at the begining.The founders of modern karate FUNAKOSHI /MOTOBU/MABUNI etc.never possesed any rank before introducing their arts to JAPAN.Rank was unheard of on OKINAWA but to be accepted into the list of JAPANESE MARTIAL ARTS they had to accept the ranking structure established in KENDO//JUDO//AIKIDO etc.The BUDO KAI which was the governing authority awarded them ranks of 5th(godan) ranking.This is a master teacher rank which simply means he knows his stuff and can teach it .Where their ranks like 6th 7th dan and above came from I don't know but I can assure you they didn't sit any test for them.

Rank is subjective to the respect you extend to the holder of that rank.As in the armed forces you salute the rank not the man.Anyone who introduces himself promotes himself and insists on being called "MASTER" PROBABLY ISN'T.

Karate.2savvy.com
http://komatsubushi.proboards76.com/index.cgi

Answer 1

Right, and Okinawan masters didn't adopt "Rank" until much later. Rank was part of the "high school" curriculums taught in Okinawa and Japan, and in their watered down school-karate, created first by Itosu and furthered by Funakoshi, long before it became part of "real" martial karate. People should be judged as individuals not as a rank.
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Furthermore, Ranks are a very political thing. Most people who have high ranks do not deserve them. Many who do not seek them, do not get them. But, many great martial artists do not seek rank. They are the true masters and might even teach their small classes in non-traditional formats. The belt "Traditions" are only 50 or 60 years old anyway while the styles themselves are much older. Okinawa accepted the "belt" system in 1956. Funakoshi added it to Japanese Shotokan before WWII, and Tang Soo Do got theirs from Funakoshi who taught them Kara(Tang) Te(soo) Do(Do). Look more than a few decades back, and there are no ranks, just qualified and unskilled individuals. To be called a master is an honor, not something to call yourself. Funakoshi called Itosu a Master, and it's true he was one. Itosu talked of Matsumura being a Master, and Bushi truely was one! Many wear belts today, and few of them are masters. Many of the true old masters wouldn't have been ranked as such because they mastered only one form and could fight like heck.

Answer 2

Yes, it is rude. And insulting. And dangerous. Besides all of the philosophical reasons for belts and ranks, one practical purposes is so that an instructor can categorize the class for instruction. By you asking to come in at a particular level, you are in effect asking to jump in where you left off, as if you have no loss in technique or form, and that the previous instructor's standards were exactly the same as your new one. This alone makes it disrespectful. Further, you are telling all of the other students that you are jumping in where you left off and that your skills are the same as theirs. Aside from the obvious safety problem you face, you're setting an example that you can leave for 5 years and then come back. And that is the elephant in the room (the immediate problem no one wants to talk about) which is that you left for 5 years. Neither you, nor your fellow students, nor your instructor truly know how much your skills degraded. The only honorable and safe thing to do is to ask to come in at white belt, so that you can be sure you can slowly pick up where you left off. This is most gracious and humble, and it ought to put you on a faster track up to a point where you left off. If you truly did not lose your skill, that will become evident real quick, and you will advance to where you ought to be sooner or later. And imagine the embarassment you save yourself if you truly had lost all of your skills. You would be the person everyone talked about behind your back - a laughing stock.

Answer 3

On this question (?) you got a lot of good answers in what I've read so far.

Outside of the dojo or away from your instructor, rank means very little if anything at all. At tournaments it's an easy way to class a group of people. At a new dojo it is not helpful since standards seem to vary even within organizations. On the street it means nothing. In security work that I've done, nobody I ever had to handle or strike asked me what rank I was.

Answer 4

Ranks have value. I've routinely seen people on here trash talk rank for one reason or another. I myself have stated that ranks don't matter and for the most part they don't. However, you take a guy that's past his prime and he's naturally not going to be able to perform at the same skill level he did when he was in his prime. Should that individual be stripped of the rank he's earned? Does that individual not possess skill and knowledge, even if he or she isn't able to perform at the same level that he or she once did?

This "hate on rank" mentality comes from MMA where they don't earn rank, have no respect for rank, and think that everyone will always be in their prime. Well, I've got a news flash for those sort... you won't always be in your prime and there's always someone that's going to be able to kick your butt, even in your prime.

Quit hating on traditional martial arts.

Answer 5

are you stating this or asking a question. perphaps what we think?

i dont know much about where the ranking system came from. and now ill promote Tang Soo Do lol

opkay tang soo do, goes through an international assosiation that deals with their ranking. each dan rank is of course TESTED FOR. so those masters out there are "masters" they tested for them. true many people lie and call themselves master or even black belts when they clearly are NOT. but hey thats what dan numbers are for

Answer 6

The only worthwhile purpose of a rank is to keep straight who has learned what and where they're at in their training. To use rank as a status symbol to elevate oneself above others is completely contrary to the nature and spirit of martial arts.

Answer 7

You've got most of the information correct. Color belts were created by the judo organization to rank competitors to skill levels.

Answer 8

That's an extreme over generalization. There are many legitimate master instructors & I am priviliged to know several of them. You are right that there are a lot of people who claim ranks they have not earned.

Answer 9

It seems like ranking in general are contradictory to martial arts.
If it's to match us up for the right competition it's one thing.
If' it's to brag about how great we are it's another.
It seems that many people adhere to the latter.

Answer 10

Yes, John Wayne conquers all!