Jesus Never said he was GOD. Jesus never said he died for our sins. Paul did!?

Question

Where in the bible did Jesus ever say he was dying for our sins? When did he ever say he was God?

Jesus died because a roman court under pilate sentenced him to death for claiming to be the Son of god under complaint from jewish leaders.


I have read the entire bible several times, and the only person who makes this claim is Paul, who never met Jesus, and wrote the Gospels more than a decade after Jesus died.



Jesus refers to God as his father, and his God, and that WE are ALL Gods sons. He never claimed to be God at any point in his life.



Paul acknowledged that Jesus never saw himself as God even though(he was equal to God(so he said))

When Jesus was called a good rabbi, he said, there is nobody good but God.



Jesus prayed to God several times, why would god pray to himself. He said miracles were for God to be glorified.

Jesus referred to himelf as a Rabbi, a teacher of the law, who sought to integrate gentiles into the covenant, he clearly stated that he came not to abolish the law but to fulfil it, by modifying the law, not revoking it.



Everytime Jesus said he was the son of god, he would also say he waas the son of man

Jesus came to include, prostitutes, thieves poor people,lowly people and tax collectors into the covenant. Why did paul revoke the law itself and completely break off from the covenant?

why did paul make up a religion using the name of rabbi Yeshua who he had never met before

Jesus was dead for many years before the first book of the New Testament was written.

Saul of Tarsus Kept falsely claiming to be an apostle of Christ. False.(I Cor.ix.1,xv.8;II Cor. xii. 1-7; Phil. iii. 9; Gal. i. 1, 12, 16). The other apostles saw Jesus in the flesh; Paul saw him when, in a state of entrancement, he was carried into paradise to the third heaven, where he heard "unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" (II Cor. xii. 2-4)

“For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.” ( 2 Corinthians 11:5) Lies, he was never an apostle, but a third party commentator.

Pauls teaching are the pillars of christianity, none of which was Jesus preachings
1.He substituted Jesus childlike faith a blind artificial faith

2.He Declared that all men are inherently evil and need Jesus blood.

3.He introduces the concept of hell for all who refuse to make Jesus their God,a very first in the entire bible. even the opressive law did not prescribe hell for anyone (Rom. ii. 12; I Cor. i. 18; II Cor. ii. 15, iv. 3; II Thess. ii. 10)

4.condemning all human wisdom, reason, and common sense as "folly," and in appealing only to faith and vision, he opened wide the door to all kinds of mysticism and superstition.

5. Anti - feminism, Paul believed that women were of lower spiritual value than men.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjugation. But I suffer not a woman to teach a man, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to remain in silence at all times. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was the one in transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array. (1 Timothy 2: 9-15)



Paul has no evidence of having received any rabbinical training,he was the disciple of Gamaliel I., the Hillelite (Acts xxii. 3).

His quotations from Scripture, which are all taken, directly from the Greek version or from memory, The Hellenistic literature, such as the Book of Wisdom and other Apocrypha, as well as Philo Are the bases of his theology.

None of christianity's doctrines were preached by Christ, Paul is the founder of Christianity and its name should be changed to Pauism

"This is my Son in whom I am well pleased. Listen to him."

Paul is an addition to the gospel just as Mary is, even though Mary had more to do with jesus, than Paul who never met Jesus.

New reformation anyone?





http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=283&letter=S

Answer 1

Your case is pretty good, but it could be better. If you have not read The Apocryphon of John, consider doing so. It will completely change your perspective on what Jesus came here to teach us. In this text Jesus informs us that He and The Holy Spirit were created and not equal to God. Since they are the only ones to know God face to face, they alone are qualified to mediate between us and God. Jesus also reveals that the god of Moses is satan.

Answer 2

Okay, I don't know if you realized this, but this is Yahoo ANSWERS. In other words, this is a Q&A forum. Is there a question in there somewhere?

I can rip apart just about everything you said in your "question", but it would be MUCH easier just to issue a challenge:

I, The Cricket, challenge you to a debate on Yahoo IM. You bring your points, and I will gladly respond to them, using scripture and church history.

Here are some of the places that you're wrong:
1. Paul knew the disciples, namely Peter. And they approved of his ministry.
2. Jesus did say He was God, though not in so many words. He would NOT have come right out and said it, because He would have been put to death right then and there. Instead, He hinted, and He showed that He was God.
3. Jesus prophecied His own death, and told His disciples that there was a reason for it.
4. Jesus performed miracles by HIS OWN AUTHORITY. Even the weather obeyed Him.
5. The New Testament was NOT written that long after Jesus lived and died. Twenty years is not that long of a time, especially back then. Consider the fact that the history of Alexander wasn't written until FIVE HUNDRED years after his death. Twenty years is not a long time at all.

It took me about two minutes to cover five points, though I didn't go into as much detail as I can. But if you want, I will gladly do so.

Answer 3

Any one knows that Christ was the lamb of God from the old testament , that was put on the post (or our heart ) so that God would not bring death on us . Anyone knows that this lamb was Christ , and that his blood was the blood that was shed for remission of sins . If this was not so , we better go back to killing animals again to cover our sins until Messiah comes . And the reason Jesus mentions the Kingdom is because man has never been able to enter into the kingdom of God , He was made for earth . But now by Christ , and being true sons of God , and when this flesh dies , we will have a body like the angels , that is does not have the weakness of the flesh . We can't dwell in the heavens with a flesh body , we need a spiritual body , one of power not of animal flesh . So now that this body dies , when we are resurrected , we will have a body of power , and of spirit . And one worthy of heaven which is the kingdom . But we can't be in Gods presents in the Kingdom with the angels until we lose the flesh which is a body of sin and weakness .

Answer 4

John the Baptist introduced Jesus with the words: “See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!” By his death on the torture stake Jesus Christ purchased the human race, dying for their sins, as we read: “Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many.” And as Jesus himself testified: “The Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.

Many misled people feel Jesus was claiming to be God when he said: "Before Abraham was, I Am." (John 8:58) If that were a claim to be God, then Jesus contradicts himself later at John 17:3, where he called his Father the ONLY true God. And if Jesus claimed to be God, then why did he say at John 14:28: "The Father is greater than I am"? No, Jesus never claimed to be God. When dealing with his opposers, Jesus told them at John 10:36: "I am God's Son."

Answer 5

Is there a story without a beginning? no.
Jesus would never say he was going to die for our sins, because that was he had to remain in humbleness and humility before the eyes of God. He had to go just as a lamb to the sacrifice.

You must first understand the origins of everything. initially Cain and Abel initiated the ritual of offerings without any request from God, but a bond from man to God is a legal bond, and a bond from God to man is also as strong to his eyes. So God came to talk to man in basis to man's understandings, besides, the devil had used this as a tool to condemn humans.

Jesus came to abolish all this, to make a final offer for our sins, but at the same time he could not say he was the sacrifice because it was still a practice not in the likings of God.

So in other words he tricked the devil, and the Pharisees and Saducees because he was killed exactly on the day of offerings. It is also said that if satan would have known this plan he would have not instigated for Jesus dead.

You are asking too many things at the same time, at the same time that giving yourself answers to your questions, if you would like to debate some of your interesting topics, just email me.

Edit: NicolaS
You are not using wisdom when reading the bible to think that God was killing everybody, God is so good he didn't even comdem those who damaged his name, the ones who Jesus did not like, Scribes, and God did not kill his own son, because Jesus doesn't die, and he never did, he only died in our view of what is death.

Answer 6

Not all the letters are by Paul, as doubtless you know. The letters of John are emphatic about His divinity.

Actually there are quite a lot of references in the gospels.

Read John as its most clear there. For instance at one time he is nearly stoned because he claims to be God, quoting "Before Moses (or Abraham, I forget) was I am". That is actually a claim to divinity. He escapes because of supernatural deliverance. The start of the gospel has Jesus called the Word - its clearly talking about Him, and its says "The Word was with God, and the Word was God".

There are less in the other 3 gospels (synoptic) but you do get them. For instance when talking about Satan, He says He saw him fall from heaven - that would be before us humans existed, I think. Also remember the healing of the paralysed man, when Jesus forgave the man his sins, despite pharasaic disapproval; forgiveness of sins is something only God can do actually.

Its also clear that he was crucified in part because of his claim to be divine.

Also the Isaiah 9 prophecy about the Christ clearly indicates to me that the Messiah is actually divine.

Also if He wasn't God, He couldn't have provided atonement for our sins, or healing ministries in His name. Christians have received forgiveness and know it; therefore he was who He claimed, since if not we would still have our sins like you rejecters of Christ do.
---------------------------

You've been led astray.

Isaiah 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed ?

As to Jesus dying for our forgiveness there is quite a lot in the gospels. For instance, see these post-resurrection words by Jesus in Luke 24:46
'He told them "This is what is written [in the Scriptures]: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in His name to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send what my Father has promised [the Holy Spirit - see Acts 2]; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high [Acts 2]." '

Answer 7

"Jesus Never said he was GOD. Jesus never said he died for our sins."

We cannot be certain that Jesus did not say these things. What do we *know* Jesus said?


About Jesus as God:

Joh 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

Joh 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

John chapter 1

About Jesus' death for our sins:

Joh 10:11 "I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."

Joh 10:15 "As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."


"Jesus died because a roman court under pilate sentenced him to death for claiming to be the Son of god under complaint from jewish leaders."

Not entirely true, but this is not relevant to your proposal.


"I have read the entire bible several times, and the only person who makes this claim is Paul, who never met Jesus, and wrote the Gospels more than a decade after Jesus died."

I don't believe any accredited historian, theologian, or expert in ancient manuscripts believes that Paul wrote any of the Gospels.


"Paul acknowledged that Jesus never saw himself as God even though(he was equal to God(so he said))"

Verse reference, please.


"When Jesus was called a good rabbi, he said, there is nobody good but God."

Indeed he did. Think about it. I should have added this verse to the "about Jesus as God" section.


"Jesus prayed to God several times, why would god pray to himself. He said miracles were for God to be glorified."

This is the type of thing that has led to trinitarian doctrine. The simple response to this comment: 1) Jesus and The Father are both God, but they are not the same person. 2) While Jesus was on earth, he was fully human 3) The Father is Jesus' father. Even if he had *all* the powers of The Father while on earth, it is not really strange that he would pray to The Father of All.

Answer 8

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the word WAS GOD

John 1;10- He was in the world and though the world was made through him the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own but his own did not receive him


John 1:14- The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Answer 9

The main difference between Christianity and Ancient Indian Wisdom is their assertion of who and what constitutes Reality. Christianity's entire basis revolves around their belief that Christ is Lord, and the only way to the Lord. Indian Wisdom, found in the Upanishads, Baghavad Gita, and early forms of Buddhism, state their conviction that "Atman equals Brahman," that atman, being the smallest essence of a human being, is equal to Brahman, the absolute, highest essence of reality. So in other words, an Indian mystic would say "your soul is reality," to anyone interested in hearing the truth (1).
Now, turn back to Christianity which posists Christ as the only Lord of Reality. If the ancient mystics adopted this belief, they would essentially declare that "your soul is not reality," but "jesus's soul is reality." So in other words, my atman, your atman, and everyone elses atman is not Brahman, but, of course, Jesus's atman is brahman. This is not only highly erroneous and dangerously egoitistical, but a slap in the face to anyone who believes and follows in the truth. Not only will Christians never find the God outside of themselves, but they will never look for Him inside of themselves, because their church tells them not to. Will Christians change this doctrine of theirs, or are they too terrified of the truth? Regardless, the fact remains that Jesus Christ is not just the Lord, but he is actually you. You are that same essence. Meditate on this and you will realize it yourself. No need for my words to tell you so.

Answer 10

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

God said so Himself that Jesus is His Son...

Matthew 3:13 - 17
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.