If Jesus was a ransom for our sins, to whom was the ransom paid ?

Question

This is how it appears to me. If Jesus was God, then he paid Himself with his own blood for something he didn't do. If he was the son of God, then the Father asked Himself for a ransom from Himself. Do either of these this make sense? Surely God could forgive us without torturing Himself or any of His alleged offspring. What kind of God would have Himself killed to make some kind of point about His love for us?

To Brian, I can understand your thinking that I'm not sincerely trying to understand this concept since I'm a Muslim, but actually, I've had this question from long before I accepted Islam. I have a convenient forum here to ask a variety of people, so that's why I'm doing it. Maybe someone will come up with something I haven't heard before that makes some sense. Unfortunately, not so far. I do wish you would take a stab at it. I am a sincere seeker, not looking to put anyone down, but to understand.

Guys I'm not asking WHY God needed a ransom, but to WHOM it was paid! I used the word ransom because that is what I've heard preachers say. If I am starting with a "lie" Brian, please specify what the lie is.

Guys I'm not asking WHY God needed a ransom, but to WHOM it was paid! I used the word ransom because that is what I've heard preachers say. If I am starting with a "lie" Brian, please specify what the lie is.

Mr. Glass, are you saying that God was appeasing Himself (for His own mistake in creating us imperfect?) by shedding His own blood? What does that accomplish? Surely God knew that we would be imperfect when He created us.

As to your analogy, is it fair that I should put someone else in my child's place for a crime that he is guilty of? Will my child become a better person and stop committing crimes if someone else always takes the fall for him?

Mr. Taco- Certainly sacrifice for others, when necessary, is a wonderful thing. That is not really the point. By asking this question, I was trying to get some insight into the Christian logic of what appears to me supremely illogical, to wit, that God paid Himself (this ransom), with Himself (His own blood as God incarnate), to Himself (as God, the Father) for something He created Himself (our sinful nature).

Using the ransoming theme, the logic would flow this way: I kidnap my child, though my goal is really another child, and then pay myself to ransom him so that the other child doesn't suffer the kidnapping.

Thanks to all who took the time to answer this question deeply.

Answer 1

The key to understanding this bit of theology is that Jesus was God and man - and thereby was uniquely able to atone for the sin committed by the first man.

Only a man could atone for a sin committed by a man, and yet, only God could atone to God for that sin. Jesus, by being both God and man, filled the bill.

The word ransom is misleading - perhaps easier to think in terms of apology, or atonement. If my son insults your family, I cannot send a friend to offer an apology. It must be someone from my family.

Answer 2

The ransom is paid to God. Since God is perfect the sin and imperfection of man had to be erased for God to be able to associate with it. God the judge made a ruling that a blood offering would cover the sins so long as it was the best thing a person had to offer. The whole time through the old testament God points to some one who will make this requirement for all time. This person is Jesus who while God, suffered the temptations of man and still held himself without sin. So he was the perfect sacrifice and all of the sin of the world was placed on him to appease the aspect of God that requires perfection and with mercy. God had to do this because man could not do it for himself, so he paid the ultimate price to save us. The equivalent would be if a man was the judge over his own son for a crime that would sentence him to death, provided a way for someone to step in and take his place and then came down and offered himself to take his son's place.


To your question to my original answer: Yes he is appeasing himself. Think of perfection and imperfection as oil and water. God is perfect and man screwed up so God had to cut the connection because man rebelled against him. God did not cut the connection but he loved man so much that he provided a way back to him through sacrifice. This requires that we chose God over what we want so it reestablished the relationship by reversing the choice to reject God. Christ is the perfect sacrifice because as a man he was tempted in the same way men are but he did not sin and was killed for the purpose of keeping open a connection for imperfect man to reach a perfect God.

The analogy is what is happening and it is a little more personal than just someone else stepping in for your child. It is YOU stepping in after YOU have sentenced him as judge. Is this fair? No, thats why it is called mercy and grace. Did God have to do it? No, but he cared enough about you to do it because he wants you to have relationship with him again to experience life to the fullest.

Answer 3

God the Father and Jesus his son are two separate beings just like any other father and son are separate beings. God demands justice because otherwise he would cease to be God.

God is just. Justice demands that when a law is given a punishment is also affixed for breaking of the law, otherwise, what's the point in having a law at all.

God is merciful also so he provided his Son who paid the price to God by taking the punishment for us. That is where the love comes in both from God and his Son and why Christ is the great mediator standing between us and God's punishment which we justly deserved.

Answer 4

I am going to try to be as clear and delicate as possible. I do not believe you are looking for answers or understanding here. I believe you are looking to prop up your own belief system. The reason my opinion is like this is because if you presuppose that which is incorrect, you can never come to a knowledge of the truth. You cannot start with a lie and arrive at any destination that is also not a lie. The sacrifice of Christ and the reasons for it lie in Muslim and Jewish thought, so I will leave you to answer your own question.

Answer 5

Try to see this from a most practical perspective and it may be a bit easier to understand. Try thinking about the following.

The most important and valuable thing to us is 'life' itself; and ONLY by the most ultimate love for another would we even contemplate giving our 'life' up unto death.(Even then, nearly no one really would; we know that).

Although God, our Father, through the ultimate act of sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ, did not actually die, as we know an ultimate death, He did show us, by the actual death of His Son, who became a human being, that 'He loved us so much, as our Father, that He would even go as far as to sacrifice His own Son FOR US.' (Wow!! Who would really do that except our all loving Father, God).

By allowing such a 'real' sacrifice to take place, (a sacrifice that 'we' deserved to suffer ourselves), He proved that the most serious and heartfelt action possible had been taken in our behalf.

His dear Son's death paid the ultimate penalty for all the sins of rebellion for all of mankind.

That ransom was paid to Almighty God, our Father; which 'reconciled' our broken relationship with Him.

Thank God and thank Jesus Christ, His Son.

Answer 6

Basically, the reason Jesus had to die for our sins was so that we could be forgiven and go to be with the Lord. Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9) and only God can satisfy the Law requirements of a perfect life and perfect sacrifice that cleanses us of our sins.
All people have sinned against God. But, God is infinitely holy and righteous. He must punish the sinner, the Law breaker. If He didn't, then His law is not law for there is no law that is a law without a punishment. The punishment for breaking the Law is death, separation from God. Therefore, we sinners need a way to escape the righteous judgment of God. Since we are stained by sin and cannot keep the Law of God, then the only one who could do what we cannot is God Himself. That is why Jesus is God in flesh. He is both divine and human. He was made under the Law (Gal. 4:5-6) and He fulfilled it perfectly. Therefore, His sacrifice to God the Father on our behalf is of infinite value and is sufficient to cleanse all people from their sins and undo the offense to God.

Answer 7

What is the difference between this and a woman sacrificing much of her lifetime for her children? For example, being pregnant and giving birth is a rough thing to go through! Not being able to do what you want and when you want is tough, too. Why bother? Love!

It is a different scale when dealing with Christ's sacrifice, but ultimately the concept is the same. The Christ story is all about relationship and love. It is about being able to relate to God. It is about showing us that he understands our suffering. It is a demonstration about sacrifice. Are you suggesting that sacrifice is a bad thing? People sacrifice themselves for the ones they love all the time. There really isn't anything weird about it.

Answer 8

your sense of logic is flawless :)

but I do believe Christians who believe in the Trinity excel in what is called: defaming logic to make faith look superior.

when all is said and done, God will ask us in the day of judgment: why didn't you use the brain and heart I gave you to make the right decision?

so your decisions, need to be both logical (common sense) and appeal to your heart as well :)

As you can see, none of the answerers here will ever tell you that the whole trinity and crucifiction makes sense. It doesnt. And they know it. But they will ignore it, because they chose to.

As for the person who thought that in the Quran Jesus makes someone else die in his place, hes undoubtedly mistaken. The Quran says that the unbelievers tried to kill Jesus and God saved him, by substituting another in his place.

Thank you for the question.

Answer 9

Jesus did exactly what He said in the Old Testament what He was going to do. He is saving us, all of us, from His own wrath if you let Him. If you spit on the cross, guess how bad that is.

You do not understand this concept because you are following the story book your false prophet made up. He did not understand it either. You insist that you can make it to the heaven by deeds, and you have angels on your shoulders counting your good deeds and bad deeds. So tell me, what is good enough? Is the cut right after you or how would you say it?

Answer 10

I don't get it either. God wouldn't have a child either. If he would of made one why was it born out of Mary. Allah wouldn't do such a thing. How can a person die for YOUR sins. when u go to heaven or hell that is what u did to go there. Someone can not be put where u r because of what u did.