If a person doesn't want to discuss his beliefs or have them challenged, is it okay to do so anyway?

Question

Here, in the religion section of Answers, we expect to have our ideas challenged. But in the world at large, people often don't like to defend or explain their beliefs; perhaps because they're not good at debate or because their faith is based more on visceral rather than logical reasons and is therefor hard to defend with logic. In other word, sometimes one's faith is personal or private in nature.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an agnostic and believe agnosticism is the only truly logical choice; given the more-than-meets-the-eye strangeness of reality revealed by quantum physics. A world defined by quantum probabilities that collapse to a single state UPON OBSERVATION. Human consciousness affects reality at the quantum level. With this element of the mystical revealed by quantum physics, the possibility of a cosmic God (not one of religion) seems more viable.

Many people seem to think that it's okay to challenge the beliefs of those who don't want to be challenged. Do you? And why?

Movedby . . .

A cosmic God may simply be an intelligence woven into physical reality. A life-force, if you will. The role of consciousness in quantum physics implies this mystical element.

A religious God is one defined by a religion; such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam. These religions impute and attribute moral and spiritual qualities and demands of or from God. Most importantly, these religions claim exclusive authority between God and humanity. I have problems with this.

Perhaps the best way to explain the problems with the God of religions is to use 2 of Albert Einstein's quotes:

"My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God."

"Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust - we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."

Occam's Pig.

Your comment about agnostics and atheists is just plain wrong.

The agnostic position is that there is insufficient direct evidence for OR against God, so making a choice, EITHER way is abandoning logic in favor of faith.

The atheist position is that the existence of God is a non-question. He simply does NOT exist. Period. They feel it is no more illogical to deny God than the tooth fairy. There is no evidence to suggest a tooth fairy . . . and God, to them, is the same.

I'd be atheist -- if it weren't for some of the things science points out. Things like:

1.) Like the interplay of consciousness and physical reality at the quantum level.

2.) The mathematical odds against biogenesis (life springing from inanimate organic matter).

Given the scale of time and space manifest in the universe, I can concede that the odds for biogenesis, though great, are not impossible. However, the intrusion of consciousness into quantum physics is mystical indeed!!

Answer 1

I think it's ok to say anything you want until you're told otherwise. Even then, I might persist if I feel the objection is unwarranted. If my vote for president is confidential, I suppose my vote for supreme deity is also confidential - though I should think a religious belief is something you speak up for and not hide away. You're probably right about some people being afraid to defend their position, because they are afraid to show a lack of intelligence or verbal skill.

The cosmic god thing is kind of interesting. Sort of like Star Wars. May the force be with you. Its a whole lot better than the choose-me-or-rot-in-hell god of christian and islam belief.

So no. Its not ok to get in somebodys face when they say they don't want to discuss something. Thats just being a rude asshole.

Answer 2

No. Why? Because I believe we should "Treat others the way you want to be treated yourself". I don't like how it feels, so I don't want others to feel that way either.

And at the same time, I figure if a person didn't want to hear the answer, then they wouldn't ask. I think if a person is more reserved or sensitive/easily offended or provoked, then they shouldn't ask provocative questions that challenge someone else's beliefs. And if a person posts a question directly to a specific group of people, in the form of an attack,don't complain about the answer you get when someone gets provoked. Play with fire and eventually you get burned.

To these I say,Stop stirring up the coals and fueling the fire if you want it to die out.

So no, if a person doesn't want to discuss his/her beliefs or have them challenged, it's not okay to do so any way. We should respect each other's space. If a person is sensitive and has a question, but they don't want to discuss your beliefs or have them challenged, then for heaven's sake, don't post it, ask your best friend or something.

Answer 3

I have learned an advantage to look at this, this way : I may be challenged for my beliefs or lack of. And even while walking into a den of adversity where my sincere answers would face crocodile, and lion-like oppositions, at best . . I still reserve the right to express what is challenged or opposed.
If the situation becomes dangerously heated, because it may face a very limited mentality, which resents vehemently, even violently, my privilege to express my beliefs or as said earlier, lack of - then I simply will adjourn
from the situation - through ALSO, the right to adjourn from fanning the flames of danger into a Great Fire!

Answer 4

Absolutely not. I give out my share of intellectual thrashings to the Hellfire Christians on YA, but only because they pipe up. They're asking for it.

On the other hand, I never solicit debate outside of YA. I do indeed feel faith should be personal and if kept so, should never be questioned by anyone other than oneself.

I'm an atheist agnostic. I've never canvassed the neighborhood looking for converts. That would be rude. I don't think it's any less inappropriate for Christians or anyone else to do the same.

Spiritual debates aside, I think it's rude to even ask someone what, if any faith they have.

Answer 5

You did a great job of answering your own question! Beliefs are personal and don't need to be justified. Some people are interested in having their beliefs challenged, even interested in considering the beliefs of others, but other people just want to believe what they believe and don't want to discuss it, just to be left alone.

I agree with you that it's good to be open-minded and listen to other perspectives to see if anything they say sounds good to you. I have learned lots from my Christian friends, also Buddhists, even Muslims. But that's because I'm agnostic, like you, so I don't have strong beliefs to start with.

The religion section here is great because people really do want to consider alternative perspectives (well, most of the time). I wish there were more places on the Internet to have discussions like this. Sadly most religious people are encouraged to be closed-minded these days, and I think they miss out on a lot of interesting thoughts.

Answer 6

I think that if someone doesn't want to discuss the topic, their wish should be respected. It's not really anyone else's business. It's kind of rude to force a conversation on a deeply personal issue with someone who is unwilling.

However, someone who brings things to a public forum - such as law, civil policy, or school, not just discussion forums - they are opening the topic to debate whether they want it or not, because it affects other people. That makes it other people's business.

You can't enlighten people against their will, they will not hear you. It's better to respect their feelings.

Answer 7

No it's not okay. Why would anybody force his opinion on a disinterested person? It takes hubris to think your opinion of a controversial subject is so right that everybody elses opinion is wrong. People can't seem to separate fact from opinion sometimes.

My advice is, when confronted by such a condescending asshole, is to kick him in the balls and tell him that you believe his pain is a figment of his imagination.

Answer 8

i can share my beliefs and opinions, but if someone doesn't want to hear it, they don't have to...but, judging from the e-mails i've gotten from other folks on R&S, i might be in the minority...now, i would have to take issue with your 'in other words'...the issue of whether other people do or do not want to debate their beliefs does not necessarily come down to their debating skills...some folks feel that debate is a fine activity for politicians, lawyers, and talk radio hosts, but is a waste of energy and time for 'real people'...and a lot of folks don't see the need to defend their beliefs...all they ask is to be left alone and be respected...and from what i've seen on this site, much of what passes for 'debate' is thinly veiled condescension, insult, slander, and generalization...what's left over is mostly rants from trolls...from just about every point of view i've seen presented on this site...all i can say is, thank God for folks like pangel!

Answer 9

It doesn't help me to challenge others views, there is no benefit in it, and if someone challenged mine I would not be happy.

I am open for discussion, but not happy to be dictated to.

I don't see the need to challenge, I may do sometimes on here when the question asked opposed to the view riles me.

Answer 10

They don't like to have their beliefs challenged because they can't back them up. All they can say is "but look! there's a bible!" and "becasue God said so" but there is no logic in that. They are completely defenseless in an actual intelligent debate