Were the great names Muhammad Ali has on his resume made great do to the fights they had vs Ali?

Question

Would Frazier be a bum for his humiliating losses to Foreman if he never proved himself vs Foreman? Would anyone know who the Hell Norton is? Would Leon Spink have beaten anyother champ?

Thank you Kieran27 for the brain food, you brought up a very interesting question in my mind.

Answer 1

hey ric, you have consistently the most introspective interesting questions! add this one to the rather impressive body of questions. anyways, liston was considered one of the greatest fighters of all time, before he fought ali-as-clay! he was considered unbeatable, until ali exposed him. archie moore, floyd patterson, cleveland williams were all considered legends and top level talent, before ali dominated them. during his exile, frazier assumed the mantle and was no joke! he was the legitimate and respected champ before he fought ali and their 1st fight lived up to all the hype and then some. this justified frazier's rep as he, not ali, won "the fight of the century!" the next two fights went even further to legitimize joe. foreman, like liston before him, was considered unbeatable and expected to reign for years and few gave the older ali a chance against him. ali stunned the world again by beating foreman! norton is the only one that could be even remotely considered overrated, but he was a solid b-level fighter, if not an a-lister and was the one fighter ali could not dominate, mentally, physically, etc(and he did fight foreman, fyi, though he spent more time falling than fighting). ali's 70's output was impressive bec the 70's was and is considered the tougest era of boxing, not bec of ali, alone, but bec of foreman, frazier, norton, shavers, quarry, young, lyle etc. there were great matchups and sound solid fighters during that period. ali beat them all...now on to spinks. he's a footnote, at best, bec ali was too old and undertrained. but he came back to spank spinks like he should have! i don't think anyone can legitmately consider spinks in the all-time greatest list, bec he lucked out one night and never amounted to anything...does this help?

Answer 2

To be honest Spinks wasn't all that great, and any fame Leon got after his Olympic gold medal, he got by beating Ali. That said, Frazier, Forman, Liston and Patterson were exceptional talent, and Norton was no stiff, he was dangerous and very respected. The secondary line up Ali faced held their own with anyone of their day, guys like Shavers, Williams, Quarry and Moore would have mopped the floor with most of today's heavyweights.

Frazier could never be considered anything other than rock solid, the guy was the ultimate pressure fighter and even tried to walk through Forman, a mistake yes, but just having the bowling-balls to try it warrants respect. When every body who faced George early on reacted with Tyson like fear, Joe didn't change his style, and he went out on his shield like the warrior he was. Joe kept getting up, no matter who knocked him down or how many times. Frazier's defense may have been suspect, but no bum on the planet had a left hook like Joe's. It was good enough to allow Joe to walk through heavyweights and trade with much bigger men.

It is unlikely Spinks would have beaten any other champ of his day, the old argument that Leon was a publicity stunt still haunts Ali and detracts from his legacy. Still Leon was an Olympic gold medalist along with his brother Michael and the Spinks family have as much respect in boxing circles as do the Mayweather family.

Ken Norton clearly didn't fight the top level of competition his day offered, he never met Frazier, Forman or even Spinks, and lost a close one to Larry Holmes. Guys like Shavers, Quarry and Jimmy Young couldn't beat Ken and he was a good heavyweight, if not great. He gave Ali fits, and broke Ali's jaw, so in looking back you have to admit his performances against Ali were Kens legacy.

I don't think any of them were bum of the month candidates, each had his place in heavyweight championship history, and were ligitamate champions, if not world beaters.

Forman, Frazier, Liston, Patterson and Moore were already great when they fought Ali, as was Holmes. Norton and Spinks owe their historical stature to Ali and without Muhammed would most likely been regulated to questionable historical importance.

Interesting question, it requires more thought than one would first think, and I enjoyed thinking about it.

I still say Ali's legacy is as much what he accomplished outside the boxing ring as inside it, but that requires another couple paragraphs that detract from the question.

Answer 3

To be the Man you have to beat the Man. Liston was a monster who was supposed to destroy Ali, Foreman too was a monster who would crush Ali, Frazier ruled the division while Ali was in prison, Norton was a one punch knock-out artist, Leon was lucky. there is no doubt that foreman and Frazier are Hall of Famers with or without Ali.

Answer 4

muhammad ali obviously is the first athelete in any sport to promote an sporting event the way he did. smokin joe was a legit champ man. Big george was a dominator, and ken norton was an unorthodox fighter that had a style that was difficult to ali. leon spinks, well that is another story. as i said ali was a master at promoting fights and making money. that is what the game is all about, the money. ali made all of these fighters legends because they fought ali. bottom line. sugar ray robinson is the first fighter to make a million dollars over his career, but muhammad ali is the first athelete period in any sporting event to make millions per fight. so he is the greatest of all time because he made it happen for all atheletes in the world to become rich. so with due respect to those fighters, muhammad ali is the reason for their legendary status.

Answer 5

Liston

Fazier

Foreman

Norton

All Top level fighters, non of which had their status unduely elevated.

Ken Norton may have been slightly underated!

Ali probably lost at least 2 of those Norton fights!

Having said all that Ali clearly was the greatest HeavyWeight Champion of all time.

Answer 6

Ali brought out everyones best. Ali's best was better than anyones best. That is was makes him the greatest of all time.

Answer 7

Wasn't Spinks on the way to beat Marciano's KO record? I'm not being a smart *** I just can't remember.

Answer 8

I definitely think they have been at least somewhat elevated to make Ali look even better. On this forum they are even pumping Sonny Liston way up now for the SOLE purpose of making Ali look better. Hey, Ali basically saved boxing so he gets much credit for that, but the hype machine that surrounds him is just way too out of control.

Answer 9

check out boxrec.com, you can retreive any boxer from any division and examine his boxing record and then get back to me.