Does God not understand the purpose of punishment?

Question

I could be wrong (yes, i'm sure some fanatics will say 'who are YOU to question God?') but I thought the purpose of punishment was to deter and reform.

Take prison for example. It acts as a deterent to commit crimes because people don't want to go there, and (hopefully) the people who do go there won't want to go back (reforming them). I DO know that this doesn't work on everyone.

So what about God's punishment of eternal torment in Hell? Ok, it may act as a deterent for people who believes the religion but God must know there are MILLIONS of people who don't (we all KNOW prison exists), so the deterent is not very strong. Plus there is absolutely NO reform. Apparently Hell is an ETERNAL punishment, so you can't come back after a good torturing and say 'wow I really don't wanna go back there so I'll be good from now on'.

So apart from the slight deterent, it seems to me (yes, i'm only a mere mortal) that the only thing gained from he punishment of Hell is God's revenge.

So does God really believe that two wrongs somehow make a right by getting his revenge?

Just Me - my stunted thought process? I thought I was being quite logical. I see you offer no answer, just a die-hard 'GOD is correct' attituted that shows you have ZERO thought process, you just believe what you are told.

Red Beetle - so do you want to elaborate? so you dont think punishment is for deterrence or reform? Do you think it is for revenge?

Brian - I agree, but when God sends you to Hell, that is HIS revenge, no?

Alli R - who said anything about Satan-worshippers? Dont try to find a scapegoat

Aaron - surely questioning God makes total utter complete sense doesnt it?

If you have a question, do you ask the idiot who knows nothing or the guy who (supposedly) knows everything?

I'd rather ask the guy with infinite knowledge if I have a question, but the truth is he never returns my calls

Just Me - have a read of what I have just said in response to Aaron, I think it applies to you too

Alfred - I was under the impressino it was God sending people to Hell, not 'us'. Are some Christians wrong then?

kaehya - so can I stay on Earth when I die? I am without God here, so what difference will it make when God separates himself from me? I'm already separated.

Ben P - "Would you be quick to forgive someone responsible for the death of your son?"

If I sent my son into a situation where I KNEW he was going to get murdered, then I would blame myself, not the murderer.

futureteacher - "God also gives warnings throughout His Word that the only way to Him is through Jesus, so it isn't like he hasn't given anyone fair warning."

Oh but I so so sooo disagree!! How about all the people who were alive BEFORE Jesus, they didn't really have a fair warning did they!

futureteacher - yes, they had a warning about changing their lifestyles, but you say that the only way to God is through Jesus. People existed before Jesus therefore, by your own explanation, these people could not have got to God

futureteacher - oh and by the way, when you say we are now under the law of the New Testament, does this mean that the Old Testament, or parts of it, have been deemed wrong or irrelevant?

Does this not mean that God has changed his mind? Why would an all-knowing being have to change their mind? That doesnt add up.

futureteacher - so have you never asked questions about something you dont understand?

How do you expect me, or anyone for that matter, to learn without asking?

So the Old Testament is wrong?

futureteacher - so the Old Testament was right about Jesus, but the laws were wrong?

futureteacher - so what if your New Testament got lost in the post? or if you didn't get the memo telling you to ignore the Old Testament?

Im not trying to be pedantic, but I hope you see my point - would people who still followed the Old Testament, because they hadn;t heard of Jesus, be punished with Hell?

futureteacher - my motive for asking is to provoke thoughts in my mind and other people mind

Judge not, less ye be judged

Did you miss that page?

Futureteacher - what I mean is when did the New Testament start being the law to follow? Word wouldn't have spread fast would it. So all the people who died whilst the New Testament was around, but they hadn't heard of it yet would go to Hell right?

Futureteacher - I am questioning their beliefs yes. Is that wrong? Should we just allow paedophiles to carry on, so we don't offend them by questioning their beliefs?

I'm not comparing you to a paedophile, I am pointing out that questioning beliefs is not a bad thing

Answer 1

The men who invented Hell didn't understand punishment as we understand it. We believe in redemption and rehabiliation. In their day criminals were most likely put to death, which gives no chance for rehabilitation, so the Hell they invented was a permanent punishment.

Answer 2

Jesus Christ died on the cross to save all sinners. The people who reject this is surely going to spend eternity in hell. Each and every person on this earth will be given the opportunity to make their choice at some time in their life. Judgment is not going to be about how good or how bad you were. The question that is going to be asked - What did you do about My Son, Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for you? Did you accept Him or did you reject Him.

Sorry guys, if you snooze you loose - no matter how many literary geniuses there are out there.

God bless all my Christian brothers and sisters, who try to provide the correct answers and are being ridiculed and sneered at. At least, we know exactly where we are going!!! Without a doubt!! Halleluja.

Answer 3

You make a good point. I always thought all this talk of eternal torment ih hell didn't seem to fit in with the whole christian thing of fogiveness and turning the other cheek. Seems a bit much that he expects us mere mortals to be able to forgive each other yet if he feels fit that we were bad we will spend the rest of eternity in hell.

Plus apparantly if we don't believe in god we would go to hell as well, so over 5 billion people currently alive will spend eternity in hell, not because they are bad people but because they had the wrong religion.

None of this fits with all the other stuff i have been told about christianity. So there are only 2 answers, either the religions have got their view of heaven and hell all wrong or there is no such thing

Answer 4

God gives people millions of chances. Though God is a God of love, he is also a God of justness. He isn't asking for people to be perfect because there is only one man who was--Jesus. Sin separates every person from God, and that is man's choice to deny Him. You are a person of free-will.

God punishes people as deterrents all the time. Why do you think there are STDs?

God also gives warnings throughout His Word that the only way to Him is through Jesus, so it isn't like he hasn't given anyone fair warning. If you don't believe in Jesus's birth, death, and ressurrection, that is your choice and a choice that you will have to live with eternally.

Oh, just to make one other point clear, Satan believes in God, but he is in Hell. Simply believing there is a God just isn't good enough. And good works don't get you to heaven either.

Unfortunately, yes, they did have fair warning...what happened to Sodom and Gommorrah? He warned them that he would destroy the city if they did not change their ways. You are forgetting, my dear, that BEFORE Jesus came, man was under the law of the Old Testament. We are under the law of the New Testament. . Oh, and the flood during Noah's time...he warned every one then, too, but they refused to turn from their wicked ways.

If you don't understand the Bible, why don't you please go read it. You should not debate something you know little about. If you don't want to know anything about it, why ask?

Again, I say, we are under the New Testament law; BEFORE JESUS there was law from the Old Testament...they used animals as sacrifices back then...JESUS WAS PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, but the prophesy came to pass in the New Testament.

He didn't change his mind...it was God's plan all along. Go look at the Old Testament teachings and prophetic teachings of the Old Testament. If you don't believe the Bible, go compare it to history that has already passed.

Of course we have laws to follow...don't you think that we should have laws?

I question your motive for asking...I think you are condenscendingly asking for selfish reasons to be honest. Christianity isn't just about carnal knowledge; it's about faith, and clearly you don't accept things that you don't want to accept.

People of the Old Testament would not have been because they did not fall under the covenant of the New Testament. Jesus wasn't there then...

See that right there...that is exactly what I'm talking about. You're asking this question to judge others' beliefs not because you want answers.

Let's put it this way...if you have never heard the Gospel, you can't be held accountable. The New Testament begins with the birth of Jesus. If you have been raised in Buddhaism and you hadn't heard the Gospel, you can't be judged for that, but if you WILLINGLY reject God, you will be held accountable...does that make sense to you?

As I said, you really ought to take that Bible and read it. So many different religions preach it so many different ways. It is good to question things, but it is also good to study it on your own to look for answers. That's how I learned. There are so many things that are left questionable in my head, too.

I believe that I am right...would it make sense for people to suffer if they don't even know the Gospel. Jesus is coming again one day, and he will not be coming again (it's in the Bible) until the Gospel has been heard by every person. Children, we're talking babies and stuff like that will not be held accountable for that either. I believe there will be children 12 and younger who will not be held accountable; of course, that is just speculation on my part.

Answer 5

Hell is NOT eternal. God does punish for the purpose of reform. If you have seen in a Bible the word "eternal" describing the fire of hell, it is a mistranslation. The ancient Greek word "aionion" means "age lasting". An age is not forever.

For scriptures on the purposes of Gods judgment I suggest Malachi 3:2-3 and 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. God will purge souls with purposeful correction in the lake of fire. After a time all creation will be with God and give Him praise. See Isaiah 45:22-24 and Philippians 2: 10-11.

Answer 6

First, I have to know which god are you referring to!! The god that created the Covenant of Noah that was before the Old Testament (covenant) , YHVH and Mose's Law, or the Xtian Trinity? No, they're not the same God, just as 'Merca's "True Right Fundie Christians" don't like Allah much...

YHVH is not interested in reform, He's interested in obediance, and whether or not you're part of the People He make a covenant with. The Hebrews could commit some of the hienious acts imaginable, and still be in obediance to YHVH's Will! Everyone outside the Old Covenant is presumably still under Noah's Covenant -- which isn't very reassuring at all...

Abraham was sent to sacrifice is son Issac, and he was perfectly willing to do so. His obedience saved his son's life.
That YHVH wasn't interested in that particular human sacrifice never really proved that he wouldn't ask for a human sacrifice at another time, whichHe finally did to create the "New Covenant".

Since the subject was raised in another answer, Sodom wasn't destroyed because it it had alot of homosexuality , it was destroyed because the Sodomites violated the Code of Hospitality when they sexually attacked the god's angels -- breaking the prohibition of angel/human intercourse that most of the Nephahim were executed for in the Flood for. That's also why Lot offered his daughters to the mob...

YHVH turned on Moses, and his wife had to use her people's 'blood magick' to stay the angel of death's first rampage. That was the incident that later became the solution to avoid that same angel when it was sent among the Egyptian first born on the first Passover.

One soldier, who didn't have the rights of a priest, tried to do the right thing by touching the Ark of the Covenant to keep it from falling on the ground, and he was promptly killed by the god's Ark, nevertheless.

Many of Israel's kings were condemned for showing mercy to the god's human enemies - other pagan ppl's that were inconvienently in the way of YHVH's promises of a "Promised Land". YHVH, through his prophets and priests, wanted whole populations of non-Hebrews exterminated. So, is it any wonder that Israel's and Judah's royalty and commoners alike, went after other gods?

Everytime a heathen king gained physical control of the Ark, plagues and boils afflicted them and their subjects.

On the other hand, the Xtian Trinity sorta changed the old Hebrew nobodaddy into a god that would occasionly accept repentance, and was willing to "forget" about sins if they were covered by Jesus' "'New Covenant Insurance Company", otherwise known as the Early Church.

Which led to a pagan Roman Emperor Constantine setting up his own "Church Council of Nicea", to hash out what the orthodox, authorized xtian doctrines would be from then on...

However, this spiritual monopoly only lasted 1500 years in Europe and the Levant before other "Assurance" companies, sprang up like weeds, claiming the Bible, which was a sin - (it was a clear violation of the NT doctrine of Apostleship)by "Pprotest[ant]ing" - as their only spiritual authority - so confusion reigned over which one can assure you that they are able to write you a valid "Get Out of H@ll" card... And, so it remains....

Thank God/dess I'm a Neo-Pagan!

Answer 7

Ingenious!

In fact, Moral Philosophy teaches that there are two aspects to punishment: Recidivist - the deterrence you speak of, and Retributionist - the vengeance of the victim on the criminal.

As you say, the deterrence of Hell will either be absolute in the case of a believer, or nonexistent in the case of an atheist. The only possible positive effect - i.e. changing of minds - would happen to doubters and loose agnostics.

All that eternal suffering just in the hope of persuading a few people, effectively by extortion? It makes no sense.

In fact - as you suggest - the only reason for inflicting such appalling cruelty has to be retribution: God's vengeance on those who shun Him.

Who could possibly worship such a megalomanic sadist?

CD

Answer 8

God is not punishing by sending people to hell. God honors the choices we make in life. If we choose to follow Him our choice is honored and we spend eternity in His presence. If we choose not to accept Him and follow Him, He will honor that choice and we will spend eternity separated from Him. There is a point in time when we stand before Him. At that point those who do not choose God will know exactly what they rejected. The torment is not from being tortured or abused but being separated from God knowing exactly what it was you rejected in life. God does not want that. God wants to have you with Him through eternity. That's why He calls to people throughout their lives. He will be greatly saddened by your choice if you do not accept Him but He will honor it.

Answer 9

Yeah exactly. I like the idea in the Buddhist religion... I think lol. I'm not really into religion but I think it is theirs that says if you have to much 'badness' in you, I guess, you won't be able to float up to heaven and you will go down to hell and be tortured. But once all the badness is gone you will be light enough to float up to heaven. It sounds kind of silly but I like that idea, not eternal punishment. I mean come on God, give us a second chance. Humans are flawed, and it isn't our fault, we were born flawed.

Answer 10

Does prison work in most cases? Will we see Paris Hilton doing exactly what got her in there again. No doubt.
You have each and everyday and breath to repent and straighten your ways.
God's done the hard part. He gave up his son's life for those who would deny his very existence. Would you be quick to forgive someone responsible for the death of your son? Who doesn't even want to be forgiven?
I'd say it would be more of God's wrath.

Answer 11

Most bible scholars say the bible doesn't teach that people go to hell to be tortured. It says in Revelations that people in the third Resurrection will be tossed in the fire and burned to ash, to be eternally dead. This just shows how little these fundies really understand the bible, which they claim to live by. I'm an atheist but I have read up on it.