The theist's ultimate argument is: "something can't come from nothing" Should we take time out the Eq.?

Question

The statement 'something coming from nothing' implies causality which in turn implies temporality. Suppose we take time out of the equation. What then? 'It's infinity, and infinity is god', I surmise would be the theist response. Infinite time still implies temporality.
I know there are some big words in here for my target audience, but how can you so-called rational theists address this without at some point breaking down to the childish response of: 'infinity, no sayings back'?

knockout85 actually, it is...

Michael B actually, a dog does have an intuitive grasp on calculus - try this experiment: take a frisby to a river, stand a few feet back and throw it over the river at some angle to the river. The dog will try to find the 'path of least time' to catch it!

Most of the rest of these answers amount to 'infinity, no sayings back'; sorry folks, you need to try harder...

Timothy, Agreed...

Liet , no mistakes in my logic. I am pointing out someone else's flawed logic. You make a good point that it is a Judeo-Christian-Islamic view. Your logic is flawed however, in that God created potentiality. Couldn't I just as well say that humankind or life itself created this potentiality. It still amounts to "I'll explain this with logic until I cannot anymore, at which point I will invoke god" Why is this necessary, from any logic?

Answer 1

What's with all the crazy talk? You need time for it makes a great pasta salad!

Answer 2

*Is Catholic*

Time is not something that has independent existence. If you have had high level science, you know that what time is is really space-time. The existence of matter and energy create time. There is some interesting things going on in String Theory which suggest that both matter/energy and time are the products of the vibrations of strings.

Anyway you make three mistakes in your logic:
First the usage of infinity. A theist understands infinity in its proper mathematical conceptualization. God is not infinite, God is eternal, it is different.
Second, that the theist actually does say that something did come from nothing. That is the Christian claim, that all that is, came from nothing.
Third, is a mistake in your understanding of nothing. When a Christian says that everything came from nothing, we do not mean that there was ZERO and then there WAS. Zero still is something. A void still is a region of space. A potentiality is still something. What we mean is that there was nothing. There was no potentiality, no void, no emptiness, no zero no whatever. And this was the way it was for aeons and aeons. Then God created potentiality and emptiness and darkness and from there actualization and space-time all which eventually end up in you sitting there reading what I wrote.

Message if more is needed

Answer 3

Infinity is not "infinite time". Infinity is timelessness. We can't grasp the concept any more than my dog can grasp calculus. In fact, it would be easier for my dog.
It is not being frozen in one moment of time either, since that would imply that time has an effect on infinity. (If we were frozen in one moment, that still implies a before and after.) And, no, God is not infinity. God exists in eternity, but He is not eternity. He is a person who willed the universe into existence and one component of that universe is time.

Answer 4

Greetings! I many times use each and every argument, so i could have in some unspecified time interior the destiny, or perhaps THAT memory grow to be from the destiny? Gosh, the possibilities............. Anyhoo, Im optimistic A-Theists exist, so thank you for making my fringe of the argument. You capitalize "Pagan" yet no longer "god", or "atheist", yet who cares? So, what have been we speaking approximately? oya, in "Paganism", each and every person gets to wish for in spite of they want, in simple terms like various faith, so I don`t see the concern, different than for whilst "Fundies" of any stripe initiate arguments they are able to`t end, and that they make certain to start a conflict. an outstanding form of Pagans in uniform, comparable with A-Theists, and an outstanding form of different human beings. additionally, it`s annoying to teach a detrimental, no longer impossible, in simple terms unlikely, and if there ARE Gods, then enable us to wish they have a humorousness, and in the event that they don`t, welllll-------they'll in simple terms get Superman to fly around the Earth and turn decrease back Time after which each and every thing would be in simple terms positive! Yep! Have a robust Beltuin! (could Day, to the Muggles) /!

Answer 5

Time in this world is an illusion. We become covered by Krishna's illusory energy called (Maya) so we think this is a long life. But actually when we go back to the eternal world it is if we where gone only a moment. Though we have been here billions of lifetimes. Krishna says "Time I am the great destroyer of the worlds," It is all a matter of knowing the great science of Time. Read Bhagavad Gita as it is BY Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada on line on asitis.com Totally amazing

Answer 6

I've always said the initial premise that something can't come from nothing (or the same notion, slightly modified: Things of such complexity could not have come from nothing or even to have evolved by chance) is a weak notion because it ignores the fact that god, must have therefore come from something. Time, it could be argued is merely a construct to understand the order of events in our existence (of course I'd argue that god is also a construct that is much less tangible.)

Answer 7

Time is a material concept only. Yes, the material is subject to time, but the non-material is not. After all, the concept of time can only be expressed as a number on a line. It is linear. Can anyone prove the existence of "time" as an actual force, or can the existence of time only be implied by our observation of change? We can see that everything material is temporary, because it changes. Time is simply the method we use to measure that change.

However, if something is absolute, there is no change, and therefore cannot be measured by time. Since we have no direct experience of an absolute, it is difficult for us to think that there is anything not subject to time.

According to science, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but it can be transformed. That transformation is measurable by time, but the existence of energy itself cannot be measured by time. Energy can be measured only by the force it exerts, it's potential, or its symptoms. Nor can science discover the source of energy itself. Even the big-bang required energy, and so the source of that energy, the cause of the energy is not determined or resolved with the big-bang theory.

That all-pervading, uncreated, indestructible, absolute energy is known as God.

Answer 8

"Nothingness" is illogical and doesn't exist, everything arises due to causes and conditions from SOMETHING (including thoughts and emotions, as well as matter). Taking time out of the equation is irrelevant... there is no finite beginning to anything, nor a finite end, there are only labels and illusions. Good point.

_()_

Answer 9

Something CAN come from nothing. They create one another. Without "nothing", there is no "something" to compare it too.

Answer 10

Simply stated ..." I am the Alpha and the Omega. .

We can try to reason based on what we know as people. But , if we dont want something to be true, is is not easy to persuade ourselve's that it is not?