Logic vs. Belief?

Question

Alright, I'm not sure exactly why I'm asking this here, as the caliber of answers is typically pretty low, but I guess it's because I have nothing better to do with my time. Anyways, this is a serious question, and I'd appreciate legitimate answers, but whatever.

So, my question is this: If there is in fact a God who wants us to believe in him, wants us to have a relationship with him, then why does that seemingly have to come at the cost of logic? I am an extremely logical person. I am all about facts and reason. This is who I am. If I am a product of God, then why does he create people like myself? Surely he must know that people like me must have an immensely more difficult time accepting something purely on the basis of belief, and as a result are vastly more likely to reject such a belief, so what I want to know is, why does he do it? Are the people who don't question things just luckier, or are they actually favored? I really don't get this. Does anyone have any insights here?

Answer 1

Thank you for the generosity of spirit shown in your question and the chance to reflect. The world of being is of such infinite perfection that for many of us that implies an infinitely perfect source of all being. Such an understanding is subtle, never direct, and not simple. Everything we know is known by its qualities. We cannot know the essence of anything. No matter how much we comprehend things, we can comprehend only their qualities, not their essence. However, we know their essence is there. I think "getting" (what a ridiculous word!) God is like that. We imply the existence of such a being from observing and analyzing the qualities of the world of existence.

When we look at the worlds infinitely large and infinitely small and people (when we're at our best), we see clear and apparent signs of their reality. That reality implies a universal reality that encompasses what we see. How so?

Comprehension is another word for encompassing. Our condition in the world of being is an obstacle to comprehension of the essence of unity which surrounds all and is not surrounded. This essence of unity "is"/is about god. Therefore, like anything else, our comprehension and knowledge of god is only comprehension and knowledge of god's attributes and not god's reality.

One of the key components of critical thinking is humility of mind. To approach this topic requires of us the attitude that we may not know everything there is to know about our topic.

Sometimes I think such discussion is all semantics. I find myself, a believer, rejecting almost everything I read/hear about god. Whatever someone says god is, I reject it. I hope you'll find some food for thought here, or at least some understanding of how intelligent people come to the conclusion that such an entity exists.

Answer 2

Why would God give you the ability to reason, and then have no expectation that you would use it? There is no barrier to finding God through logic and reason.

I also think that blind faith is the faith of the blind. Let me ask you this: When you have used logic and reason, and are convinced of some fact, could it be said that you believe it? Belief is just having been convinced, that is all. I think what you are referring to is the so-called "faith" based on no reason. What sources of information are you using to determine that belief in God is illogical and unreasonable.

Certainly, the bible is not the only source of information. I have met very few people who actually "believe" the bible, even though they claim to be Christians. They talk about "faith", but they don't actually have any. Faith is being convinced that following a set of instructions will bring the desired results, because the instructions are coming from one who has already achieved the results. Blind faith is being convinced of the end results without even knowing what the instructions are. What, then, is the value of their faith? No. That is not the process.

Suppose you want to learn Calculus. Some person may give you a math book for a first grade student. They will claim that all you need to know about math is contained in that book, and in one sense, they are correct. The numbers are there, the basic instructions are there. But, if you want advanced knowledge, you have to seek an advanced text. Even if you find the advanced text, you may not understand the instructions. Then, you must find a qualified teacher who has mastered calculus. He can teach you calculus, if you follow his instructions.

The bible is that first grade book. Everything is there, but it is limited. Still, people do not even follow the simple instructions contained within it. Just following those instructions can give them more advanced knowledge, but instead, many simply choose to say, "I believe in math" while being unable to add 2 and 2 together. What is the use of it?

Answer 3

I was just like you before I became Muslim 10 years ago. One of the things is that my faith is fortified by scientific fact and logic. Something that can't be found in other faiths. Here are a few examples of the Qur'anic miracle-

The Big bang and Expansion of the Universe

If anyone were to search in a library or on the internet about the recent scientific findings as to the origin and development of the Universe, they will definitely come across the big bang theory and the expansion of the universe. We know that these are correct because the Qur’an told us 1400 years ago that-

"Haven't the disbelievers considered that the Heavens and the Earth were a joined entity and We separated them…”(Qur'an 21:30)
"And the Heaven we created with great strength and indeed We are its expander.”(51:47)

The Atmosphere/Ozone Layer

Science has recently uncovered that there is a protective barrier between the Earth and the immediate sky. This protects us from burning and deadly uv-rays, it protects us from small meteors, it protects our gases including oxygen which we need to breath etc… This reality was not even discussed by the scientists and philosophers in the time of the Prophet Muhammad. The Qur’an said it as clear as a scientist would today-

“And we made the sky a protective ceiling…” (21:32)

Orbit of the Sun, Moon, and all other Celestial bodies

In the time the Qur’an was revealed there were hundreds of ideas and theories as to the reality of the Sun and the Moon. It was recently discovered that the moon is in an orbit and the earth and that the earth is in orbit around the sun. The latest advancement is that the sun orbits our galaxy which also has its own orbit. God cleared this issue in the Qur’an centuries before modern science and technology-

“…the sun and the moon; all heavenly bodies are swimming in an orbit (circular motion).”(21:33)

The Lowest Point on Earth

If you look up “the lowest point on the earth” in any geography book or on the internet you will find from all sources a unanimous decision of the land surrounding the Dead Sea. All of the early commentators of the Qur’anic exegesis said that this battle took place after the Persians invaded deep into Byzantine Sham (modern day Syria, Jordan, Palestine) and these commentators as well as non-Muslim historians specified that the battle took place in a land called Azriyat which was close to the northern tip of the Dead Sea. It is interesting to see that the commentators (of centuries ago) argued and disagreed as to why God used the word “the lowest” to refer to this place. Now science has informed us what God meant-

"The Byzantines have been defeated in the lowest of the Earth (Adnal-Ard)…”(30:2-3)

The Uniqueness of the Fingerprint

God Almighty tells us in the Qur’an that when resurrecting everyone from their graves that He can put man back together as he was years ago before dying. He then emphasizes by making a point out of even perfectly proportioning the finger tips. In the modern world it is well-known especially in the science of human identification that the finger print is the one unique factor in differentiating between people. So therefore to say we can put them back together is one thing, but sown to the very fingerprint is a claim to perfection which only God can make. It was written 1400 years ago-

“Does man think that We will not assemble his bones? Yes. We are able to proportion him to his fingertips.”(75:3-4)

Answer 4

In my opinion, God doesn't require people to have a
relationship with God to have a complete spirituality.
My reasoning is that atheists can be good neighbors
as well as deeply religious people. In other words, people
don't have to believe in God to do the right thing.

In my opinion, God creates people, but leaves the
definition of self to the individual; free will. I think God
does know that some people have difficulty believing
in God, but I think God is above the feeling of rejection;
rejection being a human state designated for human
emotion. I doubt God could ever feel offended because
any offense directed at God must be a sign of God's
higher being; that people would want to offend their
creator is irrational.

Everyone asks questions, but some devote more energy
to different questions than others; some questions are
better left incomplete(rather than inaccurate), and some
questions are better observed than asked.

Answer 5

This is a great question! I will do my best to give you a suitable answer...
We were given free will and this plays a major role in faith/belief. Faith is a choice. People choose to believe in a God regardless of what logic says to the contrary. Some people need to believe in something bigger than themselves just to make sense out of the madness in this world. Whether you believe in God, Jehovah, the Divine Mother, etc this is a bod born of out of trust that this Being will take care of you and protect you. I don't think that people who believe are luckier or favored. I think everyone has an equal chance of making it to the afterlife (whatever that may be for you) regardless of what you believe. Who knows... God may like the challenge of someone asking questions. I think God likes people who think for themselves and make their own choices. Logic is good, it's great, just be sure that you don't miss out on the beautiful wonders that this life has to offer (it's everywhere and I don't necessarily mean God or Magic).

Answer 6

Don't act like God is trying to hide from you. His evidence is all around you. Nature and life are too exact, complicated and perfect to have just happened by chance. I also believe there are certain things on this earth that were put here specifically for our enjoyment. All the intelligence in the world isn't going to give you spiritual understanding. That comes from the Holy Spirit which you can receive upon asking and confessing your faith in Christ. All created things are finite. All uncreated things are infinite. Both the Bible and good philosophy report that God is non-physical - spirit. In John 4:24 it is said that God is spirit (see also Luke 24:39; Romans 1:20; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17). This is why no material thing was to be used to represent God (Exodus 20:4). But this can also be shown by reflecting on what God is. Philosophically the same truth comes through. All that is created is necessarily finite and limited. But the first cause (God) is uncreated, and therefore must be non-finite, or infinite. That which is beyond the finite must, by definition, be infinite, and the Bible states that God is beyond creation (1 Kings 8:27; Job 11:7-9; Isaiah 66:1-2; Colossians 1:17). That which is physical cannot be infinite - for you cannot add finite parts together until they reach infinity. Therefore God is spirit as opposed to physical/material in His Being. This does not mean He cannot localize a physical appearance. God is not composed of matter nor any other imaginable substance. He also cannot be measured, is not spatial, and has no true location (presence is a different concept). Also, don't you see an opposing force on this planet? No one creates to destroy.

Answer 7

Many people, even Christians, think it's all about faith and nothing else.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
God gave us minds, and He expects us to use them.
We do not surrender our intellect, but many do. This is tragic. Those are the ones that fall for every scheme and trap that comes along. They are blown around by every wind and wave, having no anchor...they do not know or rely on scripture.
Looking at scripture itself, it is completely logical. The deeper you examine the scripture (and I mean the scripture, not what others have written) the more logical, even astounding it becomes. Considering when certain parts were written, and the fact it was tamper proof (you cannot change every copy)
fulfillments in prophecies, the integrated system, it is entirely logical. What challenges many are the miracles. But, when you take into consideration it is Almighty God that's doing things, it is believable.
I expect people to question...I groan when someone just gives an intellectual assent to something without really considering and understanding it.
Christ died to take our sins, not our minds.

Answer 8

Why does God require belief?
The answer: God requires belief because that is the way we think. Belief is not against logic but works with logic. (Belief is not faith; although they are often used as synonyms. I am only considering belief here).

We operate on beliefs, many with no immediate proof, placed in some type of sequencial order. Theists believe, scientists believe, lovers believe, atheists believe, everybody believes. Both human thought and human emotions are based on belief.

May I suggest that God offers a logical basis to "check him out" and prove that he exists. This offer is based on belief defined as a postulate and not blind acceptance. I further submit that this offer is set up with some logic.
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Here is the working definition of belief.
Belief: Any idea or concept that you are willing to act upon.
I could even dumb this definition down a little and say that belief is nothing more than supposing that a thing might be.

Under the above definition we can take the word God and consider, or postulate, it as a concept for argument as to existence. Now take Heb.11:6 and look at three steps God considers "logical."

"....for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

In order to do the above one must postulate the possibility that God exists and that he is a being capable of giving rewards. So you must suppose (believe) two things and do one thing; diligently seek him. Diligently seek means to use some care, but get busy and start some serious looking.

I want to point out here that diligently seeking God is not proving God. The beauty, logic I think, is that God proves himself; based on what he says in Heb. 6. This almost has to be because God is a spirit. He works by revelation and, being a spirit, must himself touch our physical senses.

One sentence from God is worth 100,000 books written by men. There are some 33,000 promises in Scripture. Not all apply to everyone all the time, but many are excellent for seeking. In addition everything physical reflects the spiritual world in some way. Not all of course is positive.

Until you get a touch from God you will never know that things beyond logic exist. Even then logic is not set aside or ignored. One may need to give up some fancy reasons. But giving up fancy reasons is not the same as giving up reason.

I have all the proof I need. My proof will not work for others, even people who think like I do. God's proof is very personal.

If, based on Heb. 6, you ever make contact, you will then be able to exercise faith, for that is a gift as well as a latent human ability. Faith surpasses reason and defies logic to operate in a different dimension. There is only one true reward from God and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. Still God will give you many 'things' if you really have it in your heart to make contact with him.

Answer 9

Sin is what separates us, as it did Adam and Eve, from the presence of God. Rom. 3:23 states that we are all sinners, fallen short of the glory of God. So, in a way, your question could equivalently ask, why did God even permit sin into Creation in the first place.
That question, I'm not certain any of us can fully answer. However, we do know some things about the nature of God. I believe that God allows free will. I believe that despite God's desire that none should perish, He knew all would fall short in free will. I believe that through His Son, Jesus Christ, He - God the Father - has been glorified. I also believe that through faith in Christ, man can likewise glorify God both now, and in heaven for eternity. Believers will be called the children of God and inherit the kingdom of heaven. They will proclaim His excellencies and have direct fellowship with Christ and the Father. Evidently, the believers were worth it enough to allow sin to enter the world. The glory of Christ and through the faith of believers was worth the cost. In a way, the Bible states this another way...(paraphrase)...all things work for the good to those who love the Lord.
Faith is assurance of things hoped for and a conviction of an unseen God. That does not mean that logic is left out of the equation. The Bible is filled with logic. By leaning more about God and His nature, you begin to understand. When the seventh seal of God's plan for creation is broken by the Lamb, there will be no more room for faith, for folks will physically see Christ return following the wrath of God being poured on the unbelievers left behind. Then you could prove God, but, unfortunately, it would be too late for salvation.

Answer 10

He put people like you here for the same reason he put people like me here. We balance each other out. While I'm a logical person myself, instead of wondering why certain things about the Bible seem to defy logic, I search to see if there is indeed, logic there.

Faith is believing in something without proof. Faith isn't reserved for the theists, everyone has faith in something.

I have faith that God exists even though I've never seen Him. We also have faith in the scientists that tell us that things like quarks and atoms and electrons exist. I've never seen them either.

I have faith that Jesus is the son of God though there's no way to absolutely prove it. Likewise, we have faith that the Sun is approximately 93 million miles from Earth even though that can't be proven either. No matter what you may cite as proof, it's not. No one has flown to the sun and checked it on the odometer, therefore it's faith in the scientist's method of calculation that causes us to believe this "fact".

I have faith that God created the universe even though I wasn't there to observe it as it happened. Atheists have faith in the scientists that claim we originated in some primordial soup but no one was there to witness that event either.

Is it really logical to believe that through a series of astronomically improbable coincidences, life just spontaneously "happened"? If I were to place all the individual parts of a watch into a bag and shook it for billions of years, is it logical to believe that eventually all the parts of the watch would fall into the exact places they need to be and that it would then wind itself so I'd have a working watch? If your answer is yes to either question, then you believe it by faith since neither is logical.

Some people say that faith equals ignorance. I'd say, I agree, because ignorance, by definition, is a lack of knowledge. How much knowledge do you have about the exact processes which took place in the aforementioned primordial soup that created life. For that matter, how much knowledge do the scientists have. If they had the knowledge of that process, they could recreate it. Since they haven't, I'll assume they have very limited knowledge (if any) and therefore are actually ignorant of the process, hence it's called the "theory" of common descent instead of the "fact' (most people confuse this with evolution which is the adaptation of plants and animals already existing which results in new species). Therefore if you accept this theory, it's purely by faith.

How much PROVABLE knowledge do I have about about the process God used to create the universe? Very little, therefore I'm ignorant in that regard so I have to rely on faith. How much PROVABLE knowledge do scientists have about their theories? Again, very little, so we have to believe the scientists by faith.

The bottom line here is that you have much more faith than you think you do. It just that your faith is in science. So I ask you this: is it really more logical to believe in the primordial soup theory over intelligent design?

I hope this answers your questions.