How will the "no morality without God" crowd respond to our observations of genetic altruism in chimpanzees?

Question

"...chimpanzees, too, are capable of altruistic acts and that this appears to be programmed into their genes...In the first experiment, the chimpanzee saw a person unsuccessfully reach through the cage bars for a stick on the other side, too far away for the person but within reach of the ape.

The chimpanzees spontaneously helped the reaching person regardless of whether this yielded a reward or not. When the chimpanzees could see the person making no effort to reach the object, they did not help.

A second experiment was designed to make it much harder to offer help, with the chimps forced to climb 6ft to get the stick. There were no rewards but, again, the animals still helped.

A third piece of research looked at the apes’ willingness to help each other. One chimp was made to watch as a second animal tried to get into a closed room containing food.

The only way it could get in was if the watching animal removed a chain on the door. In each case they did so.

Elsewhere in the animal world there are many examples of apparent altruism. Dolphins, for example, will support sick or injured animals, swimming under them for hours at a time and pushing them to the surface so they can breathe.

Similarly, wolves and wild dogs bring meat back to members of the pack that were not present at the kill." --http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1977658.ece

RunningUte: wtf? You're saying animals don't have the choice, therefore they're altruistic? The OPPOSITE would make more sense--arguing that since you think they can't make choices and act purely on instinct, they would do nothing but act in their own self-interest. Of course, the altruism I showed disproves that real fast...

rap1361: Exactly one of my points. Humans are pack animals too. Even in modern society there are "circles" of friends, and "cliques" even in younger age.

Yet, these chimps weren't helping other chimps--they were helping humans. That's 'pure' altruism, helping a person who is not 'one of us' to them.

Answer 1

They will say that even though the chimp helped, the chimp is still not capable of making a moral decision. Some will say that morality is only discernible by a human being.

I say that the chimp behavior is irrelevant to the issue. The question is can one can be moral without a belief in God. The answer is yes.

Answer 2

in case you have a real activity in faith and the ethics of it there are a pair of exciting books you're able to study. The God myth - Richard Dawkins fairly denouncing faith, with chapters discussing how human morality is formed. Why the Universe is how that's - Hugh Ross the different conclusion of the spectrum discussing the assumption of clever layout and how God has given us our morality. As an atheist i stumble on aspects of the 2d e book somewhat lurid, yet some good factors are made. Dawkins' e book does a stable pastime of undermining the non secular perspectives on morality, yet falls in need of being totally convincing on all counts.

Answer 3

Sorry that is a funny one to the up above, to think that Chimpanzees have Gods. Humans have a greater thought process then them. We back then used God as answers to the " Unkown ". We used to not know how children were born, and how it came out of the woman. We used to think it was a gift from the Gods. Now we know everything. Science has taught us, and if it weren't for those scientists studying bodies, when Religious freaks wanted them to be imprisoned then the black plague would have never been solved. Nor Small Pox, and many other diseases that Man has been the result of.

Answer 4

There is one here who said: Animals have their own god, well could we say that one they, do not actually see as a god, but show submission to....is man.


So even wild flesh eating animals see the difference between a man and other animals, because they do not submit easily to other animals, but when it comes to man, we can even see a whale swimming around a man and most usually not eat him.

Besides, it all depends, I am sure if the stick would have been the monkey's favorite toy, the story would have been a different one.

As the dog, brings you the stick back, but not because he is altruistic but because he wants that you throw it again.

Answer 5

Chimpanzees have a chimpanzee god, just as humans have a human god and dogs have a dog god.

Did you never learn this stuff in school?

Here is something interesting: There is a squirrel that comes on Yahoo Answers regularly and asks questions about nuts, and he claims that god is a squirrel.

All this adds up to one simple fact: Each species wants the universe to favor it above other species, and so each species has a god of its own species.

Thus we humans have a god that behaves like a human, and that gives us comfort and good feelings.

As for the chimpanzees, I myself applaud them. Perhaps their god and our god can get along...

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Answer 6

I've heard of Buddhist monks, but Buddhist monkeys? LOL J/K It may not be genetic, but maybe karmic? Just my Buddhist opinion. Wisdom, altruism and compassion... the logical choice.

_()_

Answer 7

every animal you discuss comes from a pack family. they are raised to care for the pack. so they have nurtured in them that helping is good. no rewards but for survive. and the chimpanzees the female will sneak out of her pack to get pregnant.

The Field of Social Neuroscience


You’ve heard the old saw before: Science is one thing, religion another—that on one hand, science deals with hard facts, while religion deals with unverifiable beliefs and inflexible dogmas. In fact, these days we are hearing an awful lot from fanatical atheists like Richard Dawkins, author of The God Delusion, who say that Christianity is actually a threat to science: that religion and science are fundamentally at odds.

So I always find it amusing when areas of scientific inquiry confirm fundamental truths, so basic to the Christian faith. And that’s exactly what we see in the emerging scientific field of inquiry called social neuroscience. This is the study of the brain in the interpersonal world. In a new book called Social Intelligence, author Daniel Goleman explores the fascinating “neural ballet” that connects humans brain-to-brain. And guess what? Goleman concludes that we are hard-wired to connect. According to the author, “Neuroscience has discovered that our brain’s very design makes it sociable, inexorably drawn into an intimate brain-to-brain linkup whenever we engage with another person.”

What’s more, the impulse to imitate is undeniably imprinted in our biology. As Goleman explains, “A different variety of brain cells, mirror neurons, sense both the move another person is about to make and their feelings, and instantaneously prepare us to imitate that movement and feel with them.”

It is easiest to notice this mimetic impulse with babies, but it applies well into our adulthood. For example, social neuroscientists have discovered that when we see others scratch an itch, our brains are actually firing in a similar neural pathway to theirs. Goleman also says that in one sense, we can catch another person’s emotions much like we catch a cold: “neural Wi-Fi,” if you will.

So what does this have to do with a biblical worldview? A lot. Scriptures tell us that the Godhead is essentially interpersonal: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—three in one, the Trinity. While each maintains essence, each is intimately intertwined with the other—just the way the brain is wired. Likewise, when God made Adam, He said that it was not good for man to be alone. At the end of each day of creation, God said, “It is good,” but when God created man, He in effect paused, saying something’s missing. What was missing was relationship. So God created Eve. Made in the image of an interpersonal God, humans are inherently sociable creatures, craving relationships, both with God and with one another.

And these mirror neurons I talked about earlier point to another fundamental aspect of creation. All humans are created in the imago Dei, the image of God. But theologians have also long talked about the imatatio Dei or imatatio Cristi. We are made to imitate God, to imitate Christ. In fact, Scriptures teach us that we achieve our most fundamental purpose—holiness—when we become more like Christ. We are designed to imitate or be little mimics of Christ throughout the earth. This is God’s plan. Ephesians 5:1 tells us, “Be imitators of Christ, therefore, as dearly loved children.”

Neuroscience is revealing not only are we made, like God, to be relational, we are also made to be creatures who imitate: the very thing God has commanded us to do. So what do we learn from science? It teaches us that we are biologically wired for the very thing God created us for—no coincidence.

Answer 8

Uhm...maybe God gave the chimps a Bible in their language or something?

Answer 9

The failure of your reasoning sir is the misapplication of equalizing the instinct/choice characteristics between animals and humans. It is the choice that gives us so many chances to please ourselves at any cost to society. Animals simply do not have that choice.

Answer 10

God is Lord of all Creation...including the animal kingdom.
I believe I've missed the point of your question. Forgive me, I'm one of those Chrisssssstiiiianssss. Could you please add some more detail about the point you're trying to make?