Since we do not choose what we believe, but rather, believe what our experiences suggest is true (see details)

Question

Then what must a person experience to be able to come to belief in Jesus as the Messiah?

For those who are going to say, "No, you're wrong, you DO choose what you believe!"

Try this:

Get out a blank sheet of paper.

Choose to believe it has written on it the secret to earning a million dollars by this time tomorrow.

Can you make yourself believe it?

Mi Atheist Girl:

What you don't know is that I work at a paper factory, and have use the old Boy Scout trick of using a little lemon juice and a soft bristled detail brush to scribe that secret on the paper undetectably (to your unaided senses, at least).

Without testing it further than your own unaided senses (ie, no holding it up to a candle just 'cause you now know how the trick was done), can you tell me for CERTAIN that it is or isn't there?

But if you then happened to lay it near a hot light bulb, and it lightly browned and the marks looked like they MIGHT be writing... would you not have some reason to believe, because of experience?

That's my question -- experience can lead to believe; belief cannot come without experience. What experience do Christians feel is necessary to come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah?

Super Bobo:

I actually don't think Free Will figures into it... notice that there is a causality here.

The implied equation is this:

My current state (without belief) + Some Experience = My next state (with belief).

You did ultimately answer the question though, just wanted to point out that free will is a moot point on this question.

moosemose:

English would be nice. I can assure you you won't get best answer with such unreadable garbage.

kclightman:

On a side note, I've had prayer tested visions of the Crucifixion back when I was a Christian. I've also had visions of Fenrirulfr (Fenris Wolf) from Norse Mythology, both in an NDE and in multiple OBE's.

I remain an atheist all the same, because my experience is that there are rational explanations for these sorts of experiences.

Answer 1

I guess you would have to try to live out some of the teachings, if they work out, then perhaps this Jesus guy was on to something.

That doesn't prove that Jesus is the Messiah (millions of people follow the teachings of Buddha, and they don't believe he was god)(Then again, Buddha never claimed to be a god)

I guess this is where faith comes in.

in summary,

if one would "test drive" Jesus' teachings, and it would come out that it suits them, it might then lead them to believe that Jesus is the Christ.

Answer 2

That's a good point. Although I don't believe in deities - as a result of a study of rhetoric in Near-Death Experiences - I am also unable to give up my belief in all things spiritual, due to a lot of different experiences which remain very spiritual to me.

I know I came into my belief in what Love is first and spent a lot of my wide and varied spiritual path looking for a good description of it. That's why I'm now a Taoist - it fits best what I believe right now. I didn't come to that by logic or being convinced. I read it and thought, 'hey, that's what I think'.

My definition of love conflicting with the Bible's description of a deity was why I left Christianity; it's possible that my definition of love has been formed by my own emotional needs (experience) and everything I believe goes back to that. Add to this the experiences I've had on the way and voila, here I am right now.

I suppose to attain belief in a Messiah one would have to believe first in the premise and our place in the universe as the Bible poses. Clearly this can be taught. I suppose someone could have a spiritual experience and attribute it to one or more of the figures in the story, but they could as easily attribute it to any other deity or spiritual figure if they chose.

I don't doubt that people have had transforming spiritual experiences - I've had them myself - but I would wonder why the only answer they come up with is the Christian one. That never happened to me when I had my experiences. I didn't understand it, but I didn't need to put a face to the feeling. It was enough for me that it was there. Defining it would not make it more real, the feeling was enough.

I think it all still boils down to the purpose of religion in the first place - to explain the unknown.

Answer 3

Well, assuming now that we have free-will, the question is really difficult for me to answer.

I think the first thing that needs to be experienced is the sense that there is something that needs fixing. The sense that there is 'sin' in your life. When this is felt and then understood, the need to correct it becomes an important issue for the person dealing with it.

I don't understand how and why some peoples lives are opened to the Holy Spirit, and it usually doesn't make any sense, from my experience. From what I have seen, people have a sudden desire and need to learn and hear more about Jesus. Then suddenly, they want to know Him as their Savior.

There are so many conversion stories that I've heard, and so many that I've witnessed, and it is all still a mystery to me. I've seen some people fall apart when told 'Jesus loves you.' Others seek until they find out for themselves. Others have through reading God's word. It happens how God desires it to happen.

My mom just lead this guy to Jesus the other day. His first comment after asking the Lord into his heart was - 'I feel different.'

Answer 4

This is an excellent question. I wish to apologize for the fact that you will not receive any well worded responses that make sense. MooseMose is but one example of non-sensical responses....

What none of these people will admit is that it is a PERSONAL experience that leads them to believe in Christ. Many times, these personal experiences have ordinary, mundane explanations, but due to ignorance and magical thinking, lead them to give supernatural explanations for natural occurances. Take NDEs for example - most dont understand the hallmarks of a dying brain, so they ascribe the hallucinations of a bright light as being that of Heaven...

Of course, there are many other reasons as well - indoctrination from an early age is but one. When youre raised from day one to beleive that Jesus is real, its hard to shake off the lies.

Again, well thought out question.

Answer 5

I suppose that could happen. I never changed my story. I think it is highly possible that coercion tactics would have been used on me if I had not beaten them to the punch. I decided on my own that my daughter would be placed for adoption. There was no internet back then, no commercials or bill boards, no movies or sitcoms to influence me. Adoption was a forbidden topic. There was a married couple. I knew exactly one married couple who adopted and I had the opportunity to watch them interact as they were somewhat family friends. They were my reference point. I wanted for my daughter what that little girl got. My daughter did get what that little girl got. A few months ago I called the sister of this man and told her after all these years that I wanted them to know that it was their example that helped me choose adoption. I found out 2 days ago that the mother had passed away a few week back. I was so naive yet my daughter still got what I wanted for her. My daughter was born in 1972, just a few months before the Roe vs Wade decision. Abortion was still an option for me as my mother had connections. She was against me becoming a mother so I am pretty sure that if I had not chosen adoption on my own, coercion or just good ole threats would have been bestowed upon me to surrender my daughter. As far as women changing their minds, I think that after signing the infamous papers, and the fact that they went from fairy princesses to street trash before the ink could dry, a lot of women figured out that they had been tricked, lied to and manipulated. Others just took longer to realize that the same thing had happened to them. They realized it after hearing the stories of the women who figured it out right away. So is it actually changing their minds or realization? ETA: I see what your getting at and sadly I do feel that some who are just that type of person will jump on the band wagon so to speak to make their circumstances appear better or them more of a victim than they actually are. In all honesty, I can see that happening more now a days than in the past. When I was pregnant there were no programs to help. Today, a mother can't not know about the programs available to her unless she's 13 or under. BUT coercion tactics have also been updated. Most women didn't go to college in my day. That was never the carrot at the end of the stick for me. AND with all the promise of anonymity some mothers felt that they would never have to face a child so it didn't matter. Then when they started showing up on the doorstep it probably was easier to lie than tell the truth. No one wants to say "hey the agency made it sound so easy, they told me I would never have to go through this because they were going to protect me from you." Or "I was so screwed up on drugs I don't remember signing the papers." I believe this covers a small group of women though. Most had no resources or were affraid of failure and the big evil word RESPONSIBILITY, that word in itself is a coercion tactic if used properly.

Answer 6

An interesting question - the problem is we filter our experiences by what we are taught and what we hold to be true. Two people can have the same experience - say, seeing a shadowy shape in the corner of a vacant room - but those two people can draw completely different conclusions from that same experience. Experiences certainly effect our beliefs, sometimes greatly, but I don't think they define them.

Answer 7

Religion exist as a reference on how we see things in our world. This is a perspective, and everybody has a different perspectives on why such and such things happens... Some will think in an emotional way, others in a rational way. Some will feel that they are black sheeps and don't want to follow the stream, so they make more researchs on the things they think are not true, or true, to see what is all about. Then they can form their own opinion by how they see things.
There is no real mind format to believe in this or that, it really depend on how you see and experience the world around you.

Answer 8

I have one problem with your blank sheet of paper test. See, I already KNOW that the blank sheet of paper has no instructions for a million dollars on it. The evidence there trumps any belief anyone would have in ti. It's different with an unproven. I have chosen not to believe in god or jesus, based on evidence, or lack thereof. If some credible evidence is produced, I will look at it and possibly change my belief.

Answer 9

Interesting question.

I can see how experience plays a big part in our beliefs. I do think that each of us goes by what makes sense to us. I have never experienced death but I have heard about it and I saw a friend die. I believe that my body will one day die.

To believe Jesus is the Messiah you would to believe the bible is truth. They would experience the bible.

My experience with the bible tells me that it is mostly from the creative mind of many men who fabricated a lot.

Answer 10

This is a very interesting question because I say that it depends on your experiences whether you choose to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ...It also depends on your background if you are raised in a Christian home then you are going to think when you experience something, maybe God did help me out there..If you come from a non-Christian home (or any religion for that matter) then it will take awhile for you to believe in a higher power or whatnot, there isn't a set experience that makes you believe it's what in your soul you know?