What do you think of these tidbits about CO2?

Question

Fact: CO2 occupies 0.035% of the atmosphere. If it doubled it would only be 0.07%. We can all live with that. 99.9% of all the world’s CO2 is at ground level or below, 71% being dissolved in the oceans.

Fact: Like CO and N2O, CO2 is heavier than air. By how much? The molecular weight of air is 29, that of CO2 is 44, nearly double. CFCs have a MW of 100. It is therefore utterly impossible for these super-heavy gases to rise to form a ‘greenhouse cover.’ Wind and diffusion can transport gases but that is to do with mother nature, not man, and the warmers are claiming a rising of gases is taking place due purely to humans and quite apart from wind, thermals, tornadoes and whatever else the processes of nature will do. Our question is, what can possibly make heavier than air gases rise 20 miles to get above 99% of the atmosphere and significantly increase the constant water-vapor-dominated greenhouse cover that enables life to continue to thrive at an average temperature of 13-15degC on the surface of this planet?

CO2 does not rise. If it did, fire extinguishers wouldn’t work. A party balloon blown up with the breath would fly straight upwards as if it was filled with helium. Moreover CO2 dissolves in seawater. More CO2 produced just means more is going to dissolve. Scientists are still trying to find out the finer points of how it gets from the sea to the trees. They know of the great cycle in which land goes under other land, heats and spews out as volcanoes. CO2 is thrown out and drifts with rain to ground, gets into trees as CO2 and into rocks as CO3, than finds its way back to the sea, then into chalk, which is compressed plankton, and then to the seafloor which becomes part of the continental drift which produces volcanoes at its extremities. CO2 is kept aloft by upper level turbulence. Otherwise it is always drifting down, not up. CO2 is found in centuries-old ice in Antarctica, way before any industrialization on Earth.

Thanks to "Ken" and this really good discussion on global warming that brings up very interesting questions...
http://thiver.wordpress.com/2006/03/04/simple-proof-that-global-warming-is-a-fact/


I'd be interested to hear any refutations or corrrections to this information. Thanks!

Answer 1

Sooooo...
When the Earth warms the ice caps will melt.
The oceans will be able to hold less CO2.
But, with more water in the oceans the effect will be Nil????

Another global warming fallacy shot to hell!

Answer 2

I've never heard the part about 99.9% of the world's CO2 at ground level or below. Is this considering carbonate minerals as part of that 99.9%? If so, that makes more sense, but if not, it's kind of misleading. It might make people think that you're talking about atmospheric CO2, which does diffuse upward. There are plenty of molecules that are heavier than N2 & O2 that diffuse upward. Nonetheless, your point about CO2 being restricted to lower altitudes is correct for the most part.

Another thing to remind folks is that the 71% or so of CO2 in the oceans is not simply dissolved as other gases, and concentration doesn't simply follow temperature and pressure. Along with dissolved gas, CO2 also enters into equilibrium as bicarbonate and carbonate ions. This is a similar alkalinity buffer as seen in the human body. Oceanic chemistry independent of temperature determines the amount of CO2 entering or leaving this equilibrium system.

Additionally, this 71% of CO2 in the oceans is NOT available to be dispersed at the same time. Most of it is submerged withing the thermohaline conveyor and may not make it back to the surface for 1600 years.

Answer 3

Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have been directly observed and measured:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png

The percentage of the atmosphere that's composed of CO2 is irrelevant. That's like saying "there are 6 species of animal on my body, and only 1 of them is an elephant". What matters is the concentration of atmospheric CO2 (about 380 ppm at this point) and how much global warming that will cause (a big chunk of the warming that we've seen over the past few decades).

CO2 becomes less soluble in warmer water. Thus as the planet warms, the water warms, and oceans can hold less CO2. Eventually it will become so warm that these carbon sinks will become carbon contributors - a feedback for global warming.

*edit to address Dave below* - yes, if the Greenland Ice Sheet melts and ocean levels rise by 23 feet, there will be a slightly larger volume of water to absorb CO2. Care to guess what percentage of the ocean's volume that 23 foot sea level rise would constitute? I'll give you a hint - the average depth of the world's oceans is over 13,000 feet. Thus the ocean could only absorb 0.2% more CO2 if it were to rise by 23 feet. Nice try though.

Answer 4

The comment about CO2 being heaving than air is misleading, especially with your premise being that because of this, the CO2 will stay closer to the earth. Actually, CO2 dissolves pretty well in the atmosphere. Thus, the concentration of CO2 at sea level is similar to the concentration at say 10,000 ft.

Someone else made a note about water being heavier than air, and questioned how it could "get up there." Actually, water is LIGHTER than air (molecular weight of 18 vs about 29 for our atmosphere ... O2 + N2).

Answer 5

Does the altitude of atmospheric CO2 have an impact on its effect?

The amount of CO2 that can be dissolved is effected by temperature. In the warm parts of the oceans they emit CO2 while colder parts generally absorb CO2.
3DM, when you say that "Along with dissolved gas, CO2 also enters into equilibrium as bicarbonate and carbonate ions." was it this you referred to?:
CO2 + H2O -> H2CO3 -> HCO3- + H+ -> CO3-- + 2H+
This does not impact the amount of CO2 initially absorbed, even though it releases 'space' for more CO2 to enter the ocean. This is simply what happens to the CO2 once it has entered the ocean. Also, calcium carbonate present in the oceans will be solved to a greater extent with increased acidity.

Answer 6

They Will just deny this or say it is irrelevant. Science and fact have no place in Global warming. Some of the high school kids did a very good experiment(I.E. a repeatable experiment) that even showed higher levels of CO2 didn't hold heat any better than the air around us. This was brushed off as not legitimate because it was high school students and they didn't get the correct results. Funny how the proponents of global warming want us to take there word for it but say any real science that contradicts there theory is irrelevant or wrong because it doesn't support global warming.

Answer 7

What about that thing we call an Ozone layer made up of O3. it is heavier than air with a molecular weight of 48. 4 grams per mole heavier than CO2. why doesn't it just come crashing to the Earth?
obviously that old idea is completely flawed. huh? Sorry hon, the helium ballon idea doesn't fly, in this case.
where do you think this CO2 is going, up or down?
http://www.helixcharter.net/department_sites/socialscience/honors_geo/student%20work/per1%20websites/t1magistraleap/images/a_smokestack.jpg

you do realize, what happens when more CO2 dissolves in water right?
the pH of the water falls and it becomes more acidic. many plants and other organisms that call bodies of water home, can't handle a lower pH. so guess what happens?