2007-06-23 03:29:30 · 14 answers · asked by FORMER Atheist Now Praising FSM! 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Your deities inherently wish to punish someone, so every mortal making a "choice" has STILL had their fate decided before birth
2007-06-23 03:30:42 · update #1
Machaira: you have the cart before the horse, his desire to taunt came first, so he created human playthings to make it happen. If he had no desire to punish, punishment would not exist.
2007-06-23 03:39:28 · update #2
I assume that you meant to include the fact that God knows every thing that is possible in advance in your argument. Otherwise, just free will and the fact that bad choices have bad consequences do not in themselves create an oxymoron. However, if we include that God knows every thing that is possible in advance, then we have something to discuss.
Think of it that way. The laws of nature are eternal, they control every thing, etc. So, except for the self awareness aspect, we could equate "laws of nature" of strict modern science and "God". Your issue arises as soon as we add the awareness aspect to the laws of nature. This is because we can then attach an intention to them.
Before we analyze the intention aspect, let us consider the laws of nature in themselves. If you put your hands above the fire, it will hurt you. Is that means that it is bad that fire burns? Are the laws of nature bad? The laws of nature are so marvelous. Without fire, we could not cook, we could not heat our houses, etc. The laws of nature have provided every thing needed for life. If we have the choice between good or bad, we have to choose good.
It is also a common understanding that these laws of nature allow bad things to happen. The problem here is a question of perception. The division between "bad" and "good" is a part of the mechanism of the human brain through which we evolve. Therefore, if we have to choose between good and bad, the distinction between "bad" and "good" from which bad is created, must be a good thing. So, it is just a question of point of view.
What we may say is that, if God corresponds to the laws of nature with self awareness, we must conclude that God had the intention that fire burns. However, a mistake happens when we push this line of reasoning further. Because we take the point of view that bad exists,. we incorrectly conclude that it was the intention of God. There is a mistake in that line of reasoning. The crucial point here is that bad and good is a question of perception. The level of awareness of every individual is not the same as the level of awareness of God. Where we see justification for unhappiness, God sees the perfection of life. If we are to attach an intention to God, we must use His viewpoint. But God only sees perfection in life. Even the possibility to think in terms of "bad" and "good" is part of that perfection of life.
2007-07-01 03:00:52 · answer #1 · answered by My account has been compromised 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Ever choice has a cost, no matter what it is. Our free will is also extending to "Are we willing to pay the cost for the benefits?"
People freely make bad choices with extreme cost all the time. Everyone knows that excessive drug, tobacco, and alcohol use can kill, especially driving under the influence of these things. They still do it all the time. No one put them in a head lock and dragged them into the situation.
2007-06-23 04:57:48 · answer #2 · answered by grnlow 7 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Free agency is different from freedom. Everyone has free agency. It cannot be taken away. It means that you choose how to respond to every situation. You will face the consequences of your choices, but you still get to choose.
Freedom means you can make the choice without fear of punishment.
God allows us to make choices that will result in lasting happiness and leave us free from negative consequences. He also allows us to make choices that result in temporary pleasure and leave us trapped by the consequences.
The natural consequences of our actions may encourage or discourage our behavior, but they don't force us one way or the other. Millions of people still choose temporary pleasures over lasting happiness.
2007-06-30 20:42:45 · answer #3 · answered by atomzer0 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Choosing to avoid the action once you know the cost is where free will fits in. Choosing to accept the punishment to enjoy the action is the other side of it . What is so complex about that?
2007-07-01 01:49:47 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
No, not an oxymoron. Make your choice and accept the consequences of your choice. Mother Nature says that, even if the Inquisition did not.
"Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law; love under will." 93
2007-06-23 03:38:44 · answer #5 · answered by auntb93 7 · 2⤊ 1⤋
Lose your love, when you say the word mine...
It's a lyric, that expresses the nature of people to take what they desire. It's about will power, not freedom. How much power do we have to 'will' something to happen, or come into being? Not much. Ergo, not much free-will. It only applies to one choice in life; do you accept life, and death as it really is, or blame someone for causing both?
Lose your life, when you say the word mine...
2007-06-23 03:39:19 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 1⤋
No, God DOESN'T wish to punish anyone, scripture is quite clear on this:
1Ti 2:4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Your logic is flawed. Free will is not an oxymoron.
2007-06-23 03:37:20 · answer #7 · answered by Machaira 5 · 1⤊ 2⤋
You are looking for a fight or your abstract thinking is minimal. Free will, just like freedom, does not mean there are no consequences for choices.
2007-06-30 16:37:19 · answer #8 · answered by TAT 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Don't you love it when an xtian tells you something he read that god said in a book. A 2000 year old book written by ppl that read some scrolls. Scrolls that were chosen out of thousands of possible choices written by ppl that had been dead for 300 years already.
Then he has the authority to tell you your "logic is flawed".
GG.
2007-06-23 03:44:20 · answer #9 · answered by Octal040 4 · 1⤊ 3⤋
you talking bout fate and desiring punishment. your the one that decides your going to hell! they made a jail house, just cause they made it do you have to go? ever heard you fulfill your own destiney?
2007-06-30 14:12:58 · answer #10 · answered by warrior*in*the*making 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋