so when i last left off, we concluded that your greatest defense to the First Cause Proof of God's existence was: "if God doesn't need a creator, then why does the Universe?" I guess I just don't get something. You are declaring that the universe is without beginning, and therefore, without end. The first purpose of this argument is to show that SOMETHING infinite exists; something without begininning and without end. You say the infinite thing is The Universe. But the second purpose of this argument is to name that Infinite thing. The name provided by St. Thomas Aquinas is "God". Here's my question. Christians have taken this "God" and, through revelation, have concluded that this "God" is the Trinity. Atheists have taken this "God" (remember, in this argument God = Infinite being without begining or end) and concluded it is The Universe. How do you not consider yourselves pantheists?
2007-06-20 08:12:14 · 18 answers · asked by hotstallion54 2 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
I didn't say this was a definition of diety, I said "God" is the name given to that which has no beginning and no end.
2007-06-20 08:19:08 · update #1
Are you calling me a dog?
2007-06-20 08:15:08 · answer #1 · answered by uiop b 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Sorry, you've slipped in at least one false step...
"if God doesn't need a creator, then why does the Universe?" ... You are declaring that the universe is without beginning, and therefore, without end.
No: that either may not require a creator does not inevitably imply that.
The "quantum fluctuation" approach requires neither a creator nor an infinitely pre-existent universe.
This means the universe does not fit your definition of God.
(Anyway, I'd at least want to include "self-aware" in that, and I'm not convinced the universe is, though I agree some pantheistic systems do get close to that point of view.)
So no, I'm not a pantheist.
2007-06-20 15:31:59 · answer #2 · answered by Pedestal 42 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
I am not in agreement with the statement that this god is the universe. NO, the universe is the universe god is not even an in the equation. The question put to theists is If everything is assumed to have or need a creator to exists than god would need a creator to exist? It follows a pattern of logic since theist insist that god does not have a creator than the logic would be god does not exist or that god could not have made the universe. You are trying to address a question that really only has one answer and it is not an answer in favor of a god existing. My suggestion back away from the atheist challenge and stop selling salvation cars and insurance to others that don't want it.
2007-06-20 15:29:33 · answer #3 · answered by calmlikeatimebomb 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
IF that was the correct definition of the word "God", then yes, I guess I would say that I believe in a "God". (Meaning SOMETHING which has no beginning and no end.) I do NOT believe that that something is a living thing that thinks and acts and feels. I do NOT believe that it is a supernatural entity of any kind. I do NOT believe that it is a deity. When St. Thomas Aquinas named the infinite "God", he meant it as being a deity that thinks, feels, and acts. He did not give the word "God" with the intention of "God" being something inanimate. So even under his definition, knowing what he meant, (a deity) we still don't believe in Gods.
2007-06-20 15:33:28 · answer #4 · answered by Jess H 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
I don't think of the universe as god. It's the universe. Nothing more nothing less. I do not profess to know everything about it. Actually the Universe does have a begining and an end.
2007-06-20 15:18:18 · answer #5 · answered by punch 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
It's a question of semantics. Although I am an atheist, Frank Lloyd Wright described what you are proposing very well when he said, "I believe in God, but I spell it n-a-t-u-r-e.
Furthermore, not all atheists say that the universe is without beginning. That's just one theory. Some say that it began with the big bang.
2007-06-20 15:14:52 · answer #6 · answered by Kathryn™ 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Pantheism is a belief in the supernatural.
There is nothing supernatural about an infinite universe.
Energy cannot be CREATED or destroyed. This is a fundamental of science. What is so hard to believe about that?
And furthermore, if we know this is the nature of the universe, why does one need a god? Why the extra layer? Because sheepherders 2000 years ago hadn't been introduced to modern science? We're not sheepherders. We know better.
2007-06-20 15:18:32 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 1⤋
Follow this. Life is predisposed to exist, that is, it exists therefore we can discuss it, and we are here because it was inevitable that given all possibilities for us to exist, we would eventually arrive at a position were awareness of self becomes obvious. This situation DOES not need supernatural invisible beings to validate it. We, unlike the vast majority of the animal kingdom have a brain of sufficient size and construction to allow analysis of our condition, none of these considerations includes the need for Superman or superstition. Science is our future - never doubt it.
2007-06-20 15:16:21 · answer #8 · answered by ED SNOW 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
OK I am not a believer or an Atheist but I am in this reality right now! So based on what you are saying human beings might have always been in this universe right? Can you proof that wrong?
2007-06-20 15:18:49 · answer #9 · answered by mrjamfy 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
God is the beginning and the end He is the alpha and Omega. He is the supreme God nobody made him he created the universe and the stars.
2007-06-20 15:16:11 · answer #10 · answered by L 4 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Interesting. I had to look up pantheist.
I think that most people believe there was some sort of beginning. Don't they? I do.
2007-06-20 15:18:03 · answer #11 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋