if god doesnt need a creator to exist, why does the universe?

Question

if one can exist forever, why cant the other?

(please no stupid responses like, "because the universe needed to be created" or "because god doesnt need a creator" both will be reported)

Answer 1

The universe has a beginning right? Does science explain what caused the big bang? The question still exist what caused the universe? If you believe in searching for truth and science does not give you all the answers why not seek the truth?

Answer 2

The new Christian reasoning is that everything has a creator. Their logic is that you look at a painting and know that someone created it, therefore someone created us, the earth, etc.

The flaw in that logic is then God would have to have a creator since the line of thinking is now that everything great has a creator, an "intelligent design". God is great and complex, therefore someone must have "designed" Him, like He "designed" us.

The point that no one can face is that nobody knows anything. Period. You can talk big and say "I know", but no one knows. I can't explain how we came to be and no one can. Religion was born from the fact that we are all afraid of dying so we have to believe there us more so we don't go insane.

Sadly, there isn't. This hundred years here on earth is all there is. Enjoy it.

Answer 3

I don't think reality as whole needs a creator. The key here in my opinion is complexity. The more complex something is the less likely it is to "just exist for no exterior reason". I think that existence as a whole must be tautologically simple. The problem with the god hypothesis is that an infinitely complex god is also infinitely unlikely.

The reason people feel the need to make up gods is they see apparent complexity and feel a need to acount for it. To do this they imagine a more complex god, then they conveniently hide the fact that now they have a greater question than they had to begin with.

The answer is not to discount the complexity we see but to account for it. The answer is that reality as a whole is simple but that the region we observe is locally complex. You can see this with fractals. Wolfram's rule 110 for example is trivially simple, requiring but one line of computer code. Yet within its output we see infinite complexity. The key is that to find the complexity within its output you need to select it. In the case of reality we selected the complexity by existing. Only in locally complex regions can beings like us evolve.

By existing we have selected a region which appears as space/time. I strongly suspect that reality as a whole is far more diverse, and when seen as a whole appears trivially simple. That however is beyond our abilities.

People on both sides of this issue act like the age of our local universe is somehow important in this argument. It is not! The age of our universe is unimportant to the argument. The reason is, that what we see as space and time are likely not fundamental but based on something else. Reality as a whole is timeless. The fact we see time at all ( actually we don't see time, we only see change ) is something of an illusion.

Answer 4

We don't believe in creation. We simply point out that the theist idea that complexity demands a creator then conclusion from that idea is that the creator also need a creator. Now, everybody except small children and creationists would be smart enough to realize this. Oh wait. You ARE a creationist!

Answer 5

Exactly! That is exactly why god didn't create the universe. I don't believe how many answers you're getting arguing this perfect bit of evidence, but that contradiction is exactly why it's so obvious god didn't create the universe. It just was there, out of sheer randomness.
To the people who say that this is because god is there "since the beginning of time": Wake up! The beginning of the universe marks the beginning of time, duh! Yet another proof that god, even if existent, could not have created the universe.
I think I've made my point.

Answer 6

Because the people who say god doesn't need a creator don't have the guts to level the playing field.

Have a look at every scientific arguement's history, it has undergone peer reviews, withstood debates, undergone years of testing before finally being allowed into text books. Did any creationist arguement ever go through this process?

Its like they are so special that they can just bypass all this and go straight into a book, its not fair and it proves just how much 'faith' they have doesn't it?

Answer 7

Exactly, using simple logic if something as great as the universe needs a creator, then the creator of the universe would need an even greater creator

Answer 8

Most people's notions of God are too rigid to be able to get anywhere in open debate. Questions like yours highlight this fact.

The assumption of the existence of God is much like the Philosophy 101 Day One discussion of Descartes' quote "I think, therefore I am." Descartes cannot know his own existence is real by the ability to think. "I think" assumes that he exists in the first place.

Likewise, for one to assume that a Being created everything, you're assuming the existence of something in attempt to identify the creation of everything. This line of thinking is truly a logical fallacy. To avoid the fallacy, one must broaden one's concept of what "God" might really be.

The debate about God has to involve unbiased, educated (not Bible-educated) ontological and epistemological reverie. Religious people are typically incapable, because they've already cemented their convictions and take all other possibilities as a personal insult to their faith.

Answer 9

You gonna report me? I dare ya!
You could never do such a thing to sweet ol me! hehehehe.

If the universe did not need a creator then nothing would exist.
Simple as that.
When you think about it--- something had to make something, I mean there has to be someone behind the curtain right?
Things do not come of nothing- only God has always existed, and of course that had to be something that always existed so if you are saying that could of been the universe, look at the universe closely-- at it's intelligent design, that is something that definatley someone created. Of course there always had to be a Creator to create the things we see and know. Like a painting, could that of just happened? Look at all the beautiful paintings out there-- someone painted them! Look at the beautiful universe...same thing.

Answer 10

Any response to this besides "I agree with you" is going to be stupid.

Theists ASSERT that God doesn't need a creator, and they ASSERT that God is the only thing that doesn't need one. They have no reasoning and certainly no evidence to back up these assertions.

If a theist can make assertions like this, then anyone can assert that the universe always existed.