The way I understand it, John the baptiser, preached omission of sins through repentance. If I am wrong, please correct me. However, when a christian tries to evangelize a Jewish person this isn't mentioned. Instead, christians maintain that omission of sin was only ever attained by the shedding of blood, which is odd, because the temple was standing during the life of John. Did he preach heresy? (hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, the implications?) With no temple, Jews believe omission of sin can be had by repentence, prayer and good deeds. How is the doctrine of John the baptiser different or similar to the modern rabbinic understanding of omission of sin?
2007-06-19
16:11:12
·
11 answers
·
asked by
shrugger
4
in
Society & Culture
➔ Religion & Spirituality
Wouldn't the invention of new religious rites imply something other than continuity to the ancient paths? Wouldn't that mean a new religion and testify of a different G-d or at least a god that changes, which Malachi quotes G-d, saying " I CHANGE NOT" (Mal. 3:6). If the god of the New testament changes, it isn't the G-d that gave the Torah through Moses. Christian baptism is a perversion of the much older Jewish rite that is still practiced to this day called a mikvah. In fact, when a person converts to Judaism and accepts the commandments of G-d as laid out in the Torah, the person is immersed in a mikvah. This practice existed before John, not something that Jews stole from later century Christians. It was the Christians that stole the ritual of immersion and perverted it and changed it into something it was not to be. It was not to be a renunciation of Judiasm to follow other paths like christianity, it was a symbol of renouncing other paths in order to follow Judaism.
2007-06-19
16:38:02 ·
update #1
The verse reference I am questioning is Mark 1:4
John did baptise in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of the remission of sins.
2007-06-19
16:45:25 ·
update #2
Augustine.....
Do you really expect someone to believe that something G-d commanded forever (circumcision) to be replaced by baptism? People obtained atonement with the half shekel.(ex.30:15) Moses appeased the wrath of G-d by offering incense, not an animal, shortly after the Korah fiasco to name a few things other than blood atonement.
2007-06-19
16:53:53 ·
update #3
I suspect you mean 'remission' of sin.
Shedding of blood is required by the OT in the Noahcic Covenant:
Gen 9:5 And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it: and at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man.
Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
There is a rabbinical teaching that says a person can only achieve atonement of inherited, and of unintentional sin. These account for 2/3 of the sin of man. But the remaining 1/3, deliberate/intentional sin is supposedly not forgivable and atonement cannot be achieved until death occurs. A person can only accomplish the atonement of unintentional sin through repentance, amends for wrongdoings, and through charitable deeds. An atoning blood sacrifice is required for inherited sin. Christ's death is supposed to achieve this for any who accept His forgiveness. The remainder of a person's sin is atoned for by their death.
But it should also be said, that not all rabbis taught or believed this.
John the Baptist's doctrine fell into the repentance, amends, and charity category.
Jesus' mission was completely different. His death atoned for the required blood sacrifice for all men...at least that is the idea.
Our own mortality is the remaining requirement...so what then, is eternal life all about? Have you met anyone that is immortal, lately?
However, you may want to define 'death' before you jump to any conclusions...
2007-06-19 16:55:18
·
answer #1
·
answered by Anonymous
·
0⤊
0⤋
John came as a heralder and introducer of Baptism. Yes, very different from what is taught by the Jews. That's why he's a heralder.
But if you look at it, the plan fits perfectly. Jesus came to introduce the remission of sins through His own sacrifice of body and blood. But that does not MATCH exactly yet on what the Jews have been doing with their temple sacrifices etc. So, you need a 'heralder'. That's exactly what John the Baptist was for. To link up between the two covenants.
That's also why amongst all men born of women, John is the greatest.
2007-06-19 16:16:18
·
answer #2
·
answered by Anonymous
·
0⤊
0⤋
Repent of your sin. He preached that you should repent and also look for the one promised in OT scripture that would be the Lamb of God...come to take the sins of the world.
Simply repenting of the sin did not get rid of it. But it was a necessary first step. You have grossly mis-interpreted some things here. In the Jewish traditions of OT there was no remission of sin without shedding blood. But Jesus came to fulfill OT prophecy and He became that "Once-For-All" blood sacrifice. John spoke no "Heresy", but came ahead of Jesus to announce He was coming and gave some foundational information of what we must do.
"Repent.... and be Baptized" Then will come Christ who will baptize with Spirit
And unlike, as you say, there is No remission of sin, or earned salvation in Christianity by Good Works alone. We can never be good enough or do enough good deeds to gain entry into Heaven. It is by God's mercy and grace we get there.
And, by the way, this new water baptism John was doing would take the place of the Jewish custom of circumcision established as a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham. But, this was not a disruptive change of things, but fulfillment of prophecy that many Jews failed to recognize.
2007-06-19 16:13:04
·
answer #3
·
answered by Augustine 6
·
1⤊
0⤋
John The Baptist was exactly what the Jewish nation should have been as a whole. One crying out in the wilderness to prepare and make straight the way of the Lord but, the Jewish nation did not do that so John was the one delegated to be that nation.
2007-06-19 16:46:28
·
answer #4
·
answered by Midge 7
·
0⤊
0⤋
In John's day baptism was something the Gentile-convert to Judaism had to do. The thing about John's baptizing was that he called Jews to be baptized and they were. This points to something larger--a new covenant that both Jew and Gentile must enter into. John also preached that "one is coming who is mightier than I. And I am not fit to stoop down and untie the thong of his sandals. I baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit, " (Mark chapter one). John also preached, "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is the One I told you about: 'After me comes a man who has surpassed me because He existed before me.' I didn't know Him, but I came baptizing with water so He might be revealed to Israel, " (John chapter 1). Heresy? To Israel, yes. To Christianity, straight orthodoxy.
2007-06-19 16:38:21
·
answer #5
·
answered by Anonymous
·
0⤊
0⤋
"In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:
"A voice of one calling in the desert,
'Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.' "
John's clothes were made of camel's hair, and he had a leather belt around his waist. His food was locusts and wild honey. People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Matthew 3:1-12
"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
"John's baptism," they replied.
Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied."
Acts 19:1-6
2007-06-19 16:17:49
·
answer #6
·
answered by wefmeister 7
·
0⤊
0⤋
he prepared the way for Jesus, he was the voice calling from the wilderness, he said in Matt 3:
11I indeed baptize you [in (with) water because of repentance [that is, because of your changing your minds for the better, heartily amending your ways, with abhorrence of your past sins]. But He Who is coming after me is mightier than I, Whose sandals I am not worthy or fit to take off or carry; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
2007-06-19 16:15:02
·
answer #7
·
answered by Anonymous
·
1⤊
0⤋
we certainly had our ward convention some weeks in the past and in Sunday college the Stake President taught and a extensive think approximately his lesson grew to become into to assert that we ought to continually be focusing merely as lots on the Bible with the aid of fact the e book of Mormon and that various mormons tend to concentration purely on the e book of Mormon. John the Baptist grew to become into for sure a appropriate individual. it would be exciting to learn greater approximately his function in the preexistance. I guess it grew to become into fairly huge. you should to look on the understand Your faith sequence whether that's taught the place you reside. Or institute in case you're youthful. that's appealing to learn the Bible and comprehend merely how lots of mormon doctrine is that if certainty be told supported in the Bible. i think of various mormons dont comprehend merely how lots you may help our doctrines in the Bible. It merely strengthens your testimony and your faith much greater esp in case you reside in a close-by the place human beings want to declare mormons arent christian. Thomas I do agree specially situations the Bible is neglected with the aid of a few, yet we rotate scripture learn in our church so as that one million twelve months we learn OT, the subsequent twelve months its NT, then BofM then D&C. We do learn the Bible. for sure John the Baptist wouldnt be in the e book of Mormon with the aid of fact he wasnt a component of that custom in the americas. until Christ pronounced him whilst vacationing the persons in u . s . a . of america they might have not got any reason to appreciate of him and write approximately him in the BofM
2016-12-13 07:50:35
·
answer #8
·
answered by jaffe 4
·
0⤊
0⤋
Without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sin.
Every Jew knows that.It is the word of God.
Jesus did what the blood of bulls and goats could not do.
Jesus blood saved once and once for all.We never have to nail Him to the cross again.
Ask Jesus into your heart today,before time as we know it ,is no more.<><
2007-06-19 16:17:16
·
answer #9
·
answered by funnana 6
·
0⤊
1⤋
He is not him.
kingdom of God approach.
repent. as Luke 3 .
and not allow brother to take sister in low .
2007-06-19 16:32:14
·
answer #10
·
answered by Mosa A 7
·
0⤊
0⤋