Christians, is the 1Samuel story histocial? Do you think it accurately quotes God's order to the Hebrew army?

Question

Accord to 1 Samuel 15:3, these were God's orders, "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."

Is this historical? Does it accurately quote the god of the Bible's orders to the Hebrew army?

(I'm not asking if you believe it applies today, I'm asking if you believe it happened.)

Answer 1

Yes, God told the Hebrews through their prophet that the Amalekites must be totally destroyed. History records that they were not however, and that nearly resulted in the genocide of the Hebrews.

Answer 2

Yes. It is historical and accurately quotes the God of the Bible's orders to the Hebrew army. The Amalekites were enemies of Israel and God ordered that they be destroyed for what they had done to Israel in the wilderness (15:2). Some people have the idea that God is good and so He'll never get angry about sin or demand that sin be punished. God is holy and His order was just. If the Israelites had let the women and children survive, then the women and children wouldn't have been loyal to Israel, seeing how they killed the husbands/fathers of the Amalekites. This was a military solution, not a political solution. And because they eventually obeyed, they didn't have a situation like we do in Iraq. I'm not really sure how that applies to today, but before you call me a hating religious nut or the Bible an evil book, you should also read the rest of I Samuel.

Saul initially disobeyed God's order. Samuel came along after the fact and killed the king and the livestock that were still living so that God's wrath would not fall on Israel for their disobedience. Because Saul disobeyed, God rejected him as king. What was Saul's response? To go on a killing spree, basically, against everyone that he felt opposed him. If you'll notice, God restrained His vengeance to the Amalekites. Saul went out after this and fought against everybody, especially including future king David, who was his ally in the war against the Philistines, who killed the feared Goliath and then won many battles for Israel, and who became his son-in-law after he killed Goliath. David was also Jonathan's best friend. Jonathan was Saul's son. Saul won some battles. He also lost some and cost the lives of many good Israelite men. Finally, at the end of the book, Saul and Jonathan were both killed in a battle with the Philistines. Saul was far more violent after God rejected him than he was when he was first anointed king. When he started, he was faithful to God. When he walked away from God, he got a lot worse and Israel ended up in a worse situation than what they had just come from when they asked for a king, instead of being ruled by judges.

Answer 3

Its possible that it was true, and there may have been a reason for it that most people don't know about. If you read the non-canonical book of Enoch, you'll see that God caused the flood for slightly different reasons than the Bible indicates. God was actually trying to wipe out the giants that lived in that time that were the offspring of the angels that came down to Earth and mated with human women.

If you look at the passages preceding that order from God, you'll see that the spies that Moses sent into the promised land reported back that the residents were giants. Its possible that the flood did not kill the rebel angels and that they had been mating with humans again in that region. God may have ordered such complete destruction because he wanted to completely wipe out all the tainted DNA. That's the only reason I can think of why it would have been necessary to kill even the babies.

According to Enoch, those half-breeds were inherently powerful and nasty.

As for killing the animals, the DNA reason might still be involved, although the implications of that are even more disturbing.

Answer 4

I believe those were God's orders. However, the Jews were not completely obedient because they spared some Amalekites. Had they killed them all, Agag (see the Book of Esther) wouldn't have been around to try and exterminate the Jews later on. (Haman was an Agagite, a type of Amalelkite.)

Why are you asking Christians this question? Shouldn't you ask Jews instead? Or do you think they have a different perspective on these passages than we do?

Answer 5

Of course. When God sentences the wicked to death, He expected his people as well as angels, to fulfill His judgments.

Living in a sinful environment should tell us how detestable sin is in God´s sight, but we have not seen or comprehend the beauty and peace of a sinless environment like heaven.

If you study the sins of the Amalekites, they were sacrificing their children to pagan gods, practiced homosexually, and warred against God´s people, even attacking their elderly and children from the rear.

If I recall correct, Israel did not kill all of Satan´s tools, and about 800 years later, Haman, a descendant of the Amalekites was instrumental in initiating a death decree to kill all the Jews in the 1,000,000 square mile Persian empire.

Yes, it is important to obey God. But thanks to Jesus, we are not purging a land to establish a theocracy, so He does not ask us to kill for Him, God uses governments to uphold His laws.

Haman´s death law marks the central point in the controversy between good and evil, just as Christ´s crucifixion marked the middle of Israel´s last period of probation.

This is discussed in a Bible code at http://abiblecode.tripod.com

Thus says my donkey, Balaam

Answer 6

That's not the only time, here's another

Joshua 6:21
They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

Genocide, when endorsed by god is apparently acceptable

Answer 7

That is like asking do you believe in Noah's Ark or Daniel in the Lion's Den.....etc. Of coarse it's true. "In the beginning the word was God and the word is God." You can't dispute part of the bible and not all of it. Either you believe in every piece, every verse or you don't believe at all.

Answer 8

Absolutely! It happened several times when God wanted to destroy His children's (Israelites) enemies!

Answer 9

Yes it happened and read all of 1 Samuel 15


Saul Is Rejected as King

15:1 Then Samuel said to Saul, “I was the one the Lord sent to anoint you as king over his people Israel. Now listen to what the Lord says.1 15:2 Here is what the Lord of hosts says: ‘I carefully observed how the Amalekites opposed2 Israel along the way when Israel3 came up from Egypt. 15:3 So go now and strike down the Amalekites. Destroy everything that they have. Don’t spare4 them. Put them to death – man, woman, child, infant, ox, sheep, camel, and donkey alike.’”

15:4 So Saul assembled5 the army6 and mustered them at Telaim. There were 200,000 foot soldiers and 10,000 men of Judah. 15:5 Saul proceeded to the city7 of Amalek, where he set an ambush8 in the wadi.9 15:6 Saul said to the Kenites, “Go on and leave! Go down from among the Amalekites! Otherwise I will sweep you away10 with them! After all, you were kind to all the Israelites when they came up from Egypt.” So the Kenites withdrew from among the Amalekites.

15:7 Then Saul struck down the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to11 Shur, which is next to Egypt. 15:8 He captured King Agag of the Amalekites alive, but he executed all Agag’s people12 with the sword. 15:9 However, Saul and the army spared Agag, along with the best of the flock, the cattle, the fatlings,13 and the lambs, as well as everything else that was of value.14 They were not willing to slaughter them. But they did slaughter everything that was despised15 and worthless.

15:10 Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel: 15:11 “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned away from me and has not done what I told him to do.” Samuel became angry and he cried out to the Lord all that night.

15:12 Then Samuel got up early to meet Saul the next morning. But Samuel was informed, “Saul has gone to Carmel where16 he is setting up a monument for himself. Then Samuel left17 and went down to Gilgal.”18 15:13 When Samuel came to him,19 Saul said to him, “May the Lord bless you! I have done what the Lord said.”

15:14 Samuel replied, “If that is the case,20 then what is this sound of sheep in my ears and the sound of cattle that I hear?” 15:15 Saul said, “They were brought21 from the Amalekites; the army spared the best of the flocks and cattle to sacrifice to the Lord our God. But everything else we slaughtered.”

15:16 Then Samuel said to Saul, “Wait a minute!22 Let me tell you what the Lord said to me last night.” Saul23 said to him, “Tell me.” 15:17 Samuel said, “Is it not true that when you were insignificant in your own eyes, you became head of the tribes of Israel? The Lord chose24 you as king over Israel. 15:18 The Lord sent you on a campaign25 saying, ‘Go and exterminate those sinful Amalekites! Fight against them until you26 have destroyed them.’ 15:19 Why haven’t you obeyed27 the Lord? Instead you have greedily rushed upon the plunder! You have done what is wrong in the Lord’s estimation.”28

15:20 Then Saul said to Samuel, “But I have obeyed29 the Lord! I went on the campaign30 the Lord sent me on. I brought back King Agag of the Amalekites after exterminating the Amalekites. 15:21 But the army took from the plunder some of the sheep and cattle – the best of what was to be slaughtered – to sacrifice to the Lord your God in Gilgal.”

15:22 Then Samuel said,

“Does the Lord take pleasure in burnt offerings and sacrifices

as much as he does in obedience?31

Certainly,32 obedience33 is better than sacrifice;

paying attention is better than34 the fat of rams.

15:23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,

and presumption is like the evil of idolatry.

Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,

he has rejected you as35 king.”

15:24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned, for I have disobeyed what the Lord commanded36 and what you said as well.37 For I was afraid of the army, and I followed their wishes.38 15:25 Now please forgive my sin! Go back with me so I can worship39 the Lord.”

15:26 Samuel said to Saul, “I will not go back with you, for you have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you from being king over Israel!”

15:27 When Samuel turned to leave, Saul40 grabbed the edge of his robe and it tore. 15:28 Samuel said to him, “The Lord has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day and has given it to one of your colleagues who is better than you! 15:29 The Preeminent One41 of Israel does not go back on his word42 or change his mind, for he is not a human being who changes his mind.”43 15:30 Saul44 again replied, “I have sinned. But please honor me before the elders of my people and before Israel. Go back with me so I may worship the Lord your God.” 15:31 So Samuel followed Saul back, and Saul worshiped the Lord

Answer 10

Loving genocide. Ah it really warms the cockles of the heart doesn't it?