I keep hearing people say, Prove there is a God. I know there is. So Prove there isn't?

Question

I'm a Christian with a rooted faith, so I can't be swayed. But I would like to hear from all those who absolutely deny God's existance and why. Here's your chance to really voice your opinions and beliefs!

Answer 1

First, you have to define the term "God." The problem with most theists is that this term is a moving target.

In addition, because there is no evidence either for or against the existence of God, you cannot use deductive logic (a+b=c; therefore c-b=a). You can only reach a conclusion by inductive reasoning using the balance of evidence (90% of A is also B; C is B, so the chances are 90% that C is also A).

So to begin with, I will assert (and others may shoot this down) that the only RELEVANT definition of God states that GOD INTERVENES TO CIRCUMVENT NATURAL LAWS.

If God circumvents natural laws, then it becomes impossible to understand natural laws. All scientific findings would have to include the stipulation, "It is also possible that these results are an act of God, a miracle, thereby making our research meaningless."

However, we have been able to expand our knowledge of natural laws (evidenced by every appliance in your kitchen). Therefore, because the scientific method leads to applicable discoveries, and the likely conclusion is that God, at least the intervening kind, does not exist.

Additionally, if God is defined as all loving, all powerful, and all knowing, then it is impossible to explain suffering. Either God is not all loving (he acts sadistically), not all powerful (he cannot prevent suffering), or not all knowing (he created suffering by mistake because he didn't know the consequences of his actions). A God who is not all-loving, all-powerful or all-knowing is also not sufficient for the definition of God, because any God that fails to meet these criteria becomes bound by rules that are greater than God.

If God is bound by external rules and/or does not intervene in our existence, then God is either non-existent or irrelevant. The classic Bertrand Russell argument is that I cannot prove that a china teapot is orbiting the sun between the earth's orbit and Mars. But while I cannot prove this is not true, the evidence against it is compelling.

The evidence against God is equally compelling, and while it is not possible to prove beyond any doubt, it makes enormously more sense to live your life as if there were no God.

It is more compelling to me that humans have invented God (a) to help people deal with the pain and fear associated with death and loss, and (b) to reflect the thoughts of the ruling powers in a particular time. Humans are always searching for explanations. When none were found, it was the natural inclination to declare that the cause of the unexplained was "God" (or gods). As the faith grew, miracles (coincidences) and laws were ascribed to this Divinity, and an orthodoxy grew up around it.

Now it seems unhelpful to believe in such superstition. The only matters that aid in our ongoing well-being are work, location, health, sustenance, and pure, blind luck.

Answer 2

I am not here to convince you. You believe. You have faith. I don't believe. I don't have faith. You can't prove your god's existence to me any more than I could prove his non-existence to you. So why bother?

"Here's your chance to really voice your opinions and beliefs!"

This question, or a variation thereof, is asked quite often actually. But here goes again, the Cliff Notes version:

I am, and always have been, an atheist because the notion of a god is illogical to me. I just don't believe any god exists. I never have, not even as a child. I'm 34 and the older I get, the more comfortable I am with my atheism. In other words, I can't be swayed either :)

Answer 3

The problem that so many here have is that there is a process of election that many do not take into account!

Here is the process:

1.) ALL Christians were once non-believers.
2.) A Christian plants the seed. (Shares the Gospel)
3.) The Holy Spirit softens the heart of the non-believer. (Waters the seed)
4.) The non-believer now realizes that something is amiss, and that they somehow come to the realization that they need help.
5.) They ask God somewhere, somehow to help them, and that they are sorry for messing up.
6.) At that moment they are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, and a Special Revelation is given to them that there is a God, and that he does exist.
7.) Now the evidence is there, they know, nothing can change that, it seems that the Christians were right afterall, and they begin at that moment forward to be convicted of their sins, and the process of Self-Examination begins.
8.) As time goes on, they read the Bible, the Holy Spirit interprets it for them, and more is revealed each and everytime they pray or read.
9.) They begin to realize that others who were once like them are stranded in hopelessness, and they greive for the lost. They cannot understand how someone could not believe, and become saddened that others are headed straight forward to a date with destiny that they will regret when the time comes that they meet God, and God calls them into account.
10.) They try to do their best to preach the Gospel in the hopes that they can at least help one or two people before it is too late.

Answer 4

Even as a Christian, I would have to say it is not up to the Atheist to prove there is not a God. It seems impossible to prove non-existence.
As Christians it is about our faith and the PROOF of God. How can we have faith? Here is how - I wasn't alive during the US Civil War. I believe it happened though. Why do I believe that? There are eyewitness accounts that I can trace back. I have Faith that those accounts are correct. Just like I have faith and Proof that the bible is accurate. Matthew, Mark, John... they were eyewitnesses to what happened in the bible.
Does everyone believe they are right? No. But even with more recent history - i.e. - the Holocaust, not everyone thinks that happened. There are many who speak to that as being a lie. You weigh the evidence and decide. If you weren't there do you believe the evidence?

Answer 5

Very few people "absolutely deny" God's existence. You're debating with a straw man.

OTOH, you are the one telling me that you "know" there's a god. I don't know that there's a god. How do *you* know? "Rooted faith" just begs the question. How do you expect me to believe you if you can't *show* me?

And now, why should i prove to you that there isn't a god when *you* are the one making the claim that there is? All i do is deny your claim; if you don't bring up God in the first place, you'll never hear from me.

Finally, since you admit that you can't be swayed, why the hell should i accept your invitation to bang my head against your brick wall?

Answer 6

According to David M (responder #33), your question is "such a silly argument and brings discredit on Christians every time someone asks it on here and that is frequently!!!" Hey, don't blame me . . . it's his words. But, as I read your question, you make no argument at all; just an assertion that you are "a Christian with a rooted faith, so I can't be swayed."

David M goes on to say that "The first responses are usually Father Christmas, the tooth Fairy etc exist - prove they don't. See how your question trivialises Christianity now?"

So now, your "argument" has turned into a question. Whatever. The mere question, according to David M, "trivialises Christianity now". So, I guess, Christianity can't stand up to scrutiny -- so please don't cause people to actually think about it!

David M then goes on to chastise you (great trivializer that you are) saying that, "Questions like this give atheist great joy in saying it proves Christians are stupid and thier arguments do not stand up." Well . . . NO . . . you just asked a question. The defender of Christianity, David M, is the one who pointed out that Christian arguments don't stand up. He's so convinced of this fact that he doesn't want you stirring up questions.

But the real clincher is when David M states that, "But far worse than that it makes it far harder for those good Christians trying to spread the word to get anyone to listen!!" Wow. He should record himself and play back his own word over and over until he realizes that his own defense is his own undoing.

Yes, David M, you're a good Christian. You and all those other good Christians need to face the facts. You believe in a fairy tale. It's a nice fairy tale. It's an inspiring fairy tale. But it's just a fairy tale. Others will ridicule you and your Christian friends because you believe in things you know are otherwise impossible. But don't rock the boat. Don't scrutinize your beliefs lest you have to actually use your mind to face reality.

It wouldn't be so important to address your delusions if it weren't for the distress and conflict it engenders in our world. Take a look. Ever watch the news? World Trade Center, Palestine, Israel, Northern Ireland, Shias, Sunnis, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Protestants, Catholics. Trouble, trouble, trouble. Religion is THE most divisive influence in the history of mankind. In the words of Voltaire:

"As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities."

Answer 7

im an atheist with a rooted disbelief os i cant be swayed. but i would like to hear from all those who absolutely proclaim god's existance and why. heres your chance to really voice your opinions and beliefs. this was a really poorly written challenge. the burden of proof lies with the ones who say there is a supernatural force that governs all things. oh and i almost forgot, i know there isnt a god so prove there is.

Answer 8

Cool. Good for you. Regardless of your ability to be swayed, your belief is your personal belief; God exists, for YOU. No, evidence, no matter what, will convice you otherwise. Good, be strong in your faith.

Allow others to be just as strong in their denial, for themselves.

I'm not denying the existance of God, nor do I confirm it...at least not for you. You just aren't worth any more time as the point is moot as it's a personal opinion and belief, and not worth further discussion or argument.

Go with God, love your neighbor, but don't forget to hate those that don't believe as you do...it just might be what your God wants and expects from you. : )

Love, brother.

Answer 9

In any Court of Law you must prove that something exists, not that it doesn't. Without a physical body, you have no proof that a murder occurred. Without a corpse, no murder exists. You are in the same boat with your God Concept. You cannot prove that God exists other than someone said so (that's not proof). If God would only show up like he used to do in the bible, millions of non-believers would be instantly converted. What seems to be God's problem with showing up? Does he know that the proof is in the pudding?

Answer 10

That is such a silly argument and brings discredit on Christians every time someone asks it on here and that is frequently!!!

The first responses are usually Father Christmas, the tooth Fairy etc exist - prove they don't. See how your question trivialises Christianity now?

Questions like this give atheist great joy in saying it proves Christians are stupid and thier arguments do not stand up. But far worse than that it makes it far harder for those good Christians trying to spread the word to get anyone to listen!!

Answer 11

I'm not sure that a closed mind is something to publicly brag about. It's telling us, up front, that you don't listen to reason. What kind of testimony is that for your "faith"?

Nonetheless, I've never been known to turn down an offer to proselytize for agnosticism. :))

I will argue, below, that a good God can't exist. I believe that, if there is a God, he is indifferent. A bad God would be infringing on Satan's territory, so I won't even go there.

Because nobody, even after thousands of years, can offer direct evidence either way, belief, or disbelief, in God boils down to faith.

Faith. For something so important, it seems to be taken for granted or glossed over. What exactly is faith? My observations and experience tells me that faith is the suspension of disbelief. There is no bridge between reason and faith; you have to leap. Faith simply can't be arrived at through critical reason or logic. Faith is a personal position – not an objective conclusion.

What about doubt? How can you have faith without doubt? THAT IS BLIND FAITH! If we humans are special for any reason, it is because of our minds. Why would God bestow this great gift upon his special creatures only to require that we don’t use it to “know” him? Indeed, without doubt, there is no meaning, need or purpose for faith.

Paying attention?

There are a myriad of arguments for or against God. However, there's no direct evidence either way. To me, it's necessary to define what you mean by "God" to begin with. For most of us, that means a God defined by a religion.

And that's where the problems start . . . at least for the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam). For the remainder of this reply, any mention of "religion" means "Abrahamic religion" for short.

Religion tries to lay claim to God. This insistence on exclusivity sets up religions for contention unless or until they convert the entire world – thereby eliminating the competition. This is why, I believe, these religions await the end-time when God will finally do the eliminating.

It's a forgone conclusion that no single religion (much less, denomination!) will win the world on its own. After all, they've had between 1,400 and 3,500 years (Islam and Judaism, respectively) to do so and haven't made any real progress. Christianity, with over 2 billion adherents, leads the pack but Islam, at 1.3 billion, is coming on strong (again). Despite being many centuries older than Christianity or Islam, Judaism has only 14 million adherents. If ANY religion truly is THE right one, I don't believe the competition would have survived this long.

Given all this . . . how are we supposed to decide which religion, if any, is right? The first one? The biggest one? The most sophisticated one? The most realistic one? What? The competition reduces our choice to a roll of the dice. And why would we go to hell for choosing the wrong one? It's ridiculous. Can God really be so sadistic? And if so, why would you worship him?

No . . .

NO religion can be valid if God exists AND is good. Any entity who could create the universe, would not be so petty as to set up his "intelligent" beings for condemnation. Why would the Creator give us free choice, only to confuse the choice of Creator? I say that if God exists, ALL religions are heretical. If God is good, we wouldn't be killing each other in His name. In the paraphrased words of Stephen Roberts:

"I contend that we are both anti-religion. I just believe in one fewer religion than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible religions, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

Oh yes . . . and forget about "Original Sin". It's the biggest lie in the bible and the foundation for many lies that follow. I am no more accountable for Eve than I am for you.

I believe an indifferent God could, or might, exist; but I'm certain that NO religion is valid.