How can you call yourself Catholic and believe in Medjugorie?

Question

People have asked what is your favorite Marian depiction or devotion. I am always shocked how many people who are suppose to be Catholic replied Medjugorie.

Medjugorie has been declared to not be a genuine apparition, it has been banned from pilgrimage, the previous Pope and the current one have said anything said positive about Medjugorie that has been attributed to them was pulled out of thin air.

The letter from the Congregation for the Propagation of Faith is you read it says no, no and no again. And the core substantial theology put out by the "seer" borders on heresy of all proglomated Christian doctrine (by Catholic and non Catholic Churches). So how can you call yourself Catholic, deny the directive and teachings of the Church and promote Mejugorie?

Could be- that is fine you can believe it but then you are not following the directives and tenents of your faith. And committing the sin of culpable negligence under Canon code 229 and the Catechism paragraphs 900-905)

Canon Code 229:

Can. 229 ß1 Lay people have the duty and the right to acquire the knowledge of Christian teaching which is appropriate to each one's capacity and condition, so that they may be able to live according to this teaching, to proclaim it and if necessary to defend it, and may be capable of playing their part in the exercise of the apostolate.

Meaning you have culpable negligence the responsibilty to know if the Church sanctions something or forbids it. Lack of knowledge is not an excuse in defiance of teachings (this has been interpreted as such by canon lawyers).

the Catechism of the Catholic Church Paragraph 900-905 is back up stating the Laity requirements of being educated on the teaching in order to fulfill the commision of Baptism and Confirmation. IF one does not educate themselves they are NOT fulfilling their requirements.

I have been unable to find the letter on the internet to link here but most books on Medjugorie have the letter written to Bishop Gilbert Aubry May 26 1998 in it (it should not be to hard to find for someone in Rome).

The most important part of it says:
"As for the credibilty of the "apparitions" in question, this Dicastery respects what was decided by the bishops of the former Yugoslavia in the Declaration of Zadar April 10, 1991

Here is a library of communications from Yugoslavia (without the Medjugorie people doctoring them) http://www.ewtn.com/library/BISHOPS/ZANICMED.HTM (although I am not a big fan of EWTN)

Here is a letter from the Bishops detailing their investigations you have to scroll past the headlines http://www.newjerusalem.com/bishop-truth.htm


Some more sites that provide links.

Although not really deep theology it makes some good starting points to think on

And I am careful to take Canon Law and Catechism in context.

"[I]n this local Church of Mostar-Duvno, there exists something similar to a schism. A number of priests that have been expelled from the Franciscan OFM Order by the Generalate of the Order, due to their disobedience to the Holy Father, for years now have been forcefully keeping a few parish churches and rectories along with church inventory. They have not only been illegally active in these parishes, but they have also administered the sacraments profanely, while others invalidly, such as Confession and Confirmation, or they have assisted at invalid marriages. This type of anti-ecclesial behaviour is shocking to all of us. At the same time, this scandal of sacrilegiously administering the sacraments, especially of the Most Holy Body of Christ, must shock all the faithful as well who invalidly confess their sins to these priests and participate in sacrilegious liturgies.

We pray to the Lord that this scandal and schism be uprooted as soon as possible from our midst. Therefore I responsibly call upon those who claim themselves to be “seers”, as well as those persons behind the “messages”, to demonstrate ecclesiastical obedience and to cease with these public manifestations and messages in this parish. In this fashion they shall show their necessary adherence to the Church, by neither placing private “apparitions” nor private sayings before the official position of the Church."

I wish to say I am Portuguese and raised Catholic my entire life, by a family directly from Fatima. So trust me Marian devotions were a huge part of my life.

Patsue conversion to the Church creates obedience not disobeidence to it's directives and teachings. Nothing I am stating is a lie (how ever what you state is unproved and unsanctioned by the Church at best).

I have the documents to back me up. Pope John II said if he were not Pope he would probably go to see for himself, but the Pope cannot go to false apparations. I have never found any evidence Ratzinger as the leader for the congregation of the doctrine of faith ever went to medjugorie. He does however officially support the Bishops of Yugoslavia in banning pilgrimages.

Why is it so hard for people to understand you are defying the local ordinaries and a direct ban which the Vatican itself supports

http://www.olrl.org/prophecy/medjugorje.shtml

Answer 1

Untill now I've only heard that the Bishop of the Medjugorje region was opposed to the apparitions. I don't think many people know why, neither did I.

I used to live in Yugoslavia, and it is an understanding among Franciscans there that Medjugorje did predict the Yugoslav war. When the news came out, in 1981, as I understand it, they told people to pray for peace. This is why they were put in prison - to pray for peace would be to expect war. Most Yugoslav newspapers covered this story and ridiculed them at the time. It is also believed that it is the site where most confessions are said in the world, if that has any importance.

Nevertheless, to oppose the Bishop, and the Vatican, is something un-Catholic, like you said.

Remember that the Divine Mercy devotion too was initialy banned by the church, by conflicting news, and was accepted and made official by Pope John Paul II, more than 50 years later.

But how different was that case! The visionary nunn, St.Faustina, was extremely careful of obedience to the church. When one of her visions of Jesus apparently commanded her to do something against the wishes of her confessor, she said, "I will follow your orders insofar as You will permit me to do so though Your representative the Church. O my Jesus I give priority over the voice of the Church over the voice with which You speak to me."

But now we see that the Medjugorje apparitons are different, like you said, in that they directly threaten the Bishop's authority. That can't be dismissed as something trivial. Mary would never threaten the Bishop.

So it looks like it's better to play safe and trust the Church as "Jesus' representative".

Answer 2

Medjugorje has never been declared authentic by the Catholic church . The 'seers' have not exhibited saintly behaviour as has been seen in authentic Marian apparitions like at Fatima.

This is a brief news report, reprinted from a Rome newspaper article, of the Yugoslavian bishops' finding that after several years of study, there is no proof that Marian apparitions have occurred at Medjugorje.

The Bishops On Medjugorje
Rome - Yugoslavian bishops said after several years of study there is no proof that Marian apparitions have occurred at Medjugorje.

Their statement was drawn up at a meeting of Yugoslavian bishops in November and passed on to the Vatican for review.
It was not made public by the bishops or the Vatican, but an Italian Catholic news agency published its translation of the communiqué Jan. 2. The contents were confirmed by Church sources in Yugoslavia. The sources said the statement was approved in a nearly unanimous vote, with 19 bishops in favor and one abstaining.

In the statement drawn up Nov. 27-28, the bishops recalled that the alleged apparitions, which began in 1981-82, have been the focus of studies at the diocesan and national level for several years.
A Vatican doctrinal official, said the bishops' cautionary statement against defining the apparitions as supernatural should be accepted by the faithful around the world.

Here is an article listing the reasons why this so-called Marian apparition cannot be authentic:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/9463/medjugorje.html

Answer 3

First of all what you are saying is not true.

Secondly they did not yet approve of the apparitions because they are waiting for the first secrets to unfold.

JPll believed in these apparitions, even though bad and misinformed publications are found online.

Suffice to say, the Church does not tell anyone they may not believe in personal revelations.... but if it strengthens ones faith, they take that into consideration.

This apparition is up in the air. And the visionaries did not report any heresies. And they do not smoke, and they did not lie to the Bishop and all the other false accusations so popular online today.

The Church is careful of approving apparitions, and so far havent moved on this one. Only because there are many miracles, many conversions, and the secrets havent been fulfilled yet.

Meantime, do not be telling the faithful members that they were wrong for being converted to the Church because of these messages. Instead be glad. If this were done from evil, then satan is dividing his own kingdom.

Telling ppl they are bad for believing in something that softened their heart to Christ, may cause them to stumble.

Answer 4

Hi Cathy,

I would just like to say, one must make a distinction between human faith and divine faith. One could put human faith in a private revelation so long as it does not deny or conflict with the revelation given to the Church in the Bible and in Tradition.

We must be careful when dealing with this kind of phenomenon, neither to jump to the conclusion that it is real nor to jump to the conclusion that it is not real. Let's let the appropriate ecclesiastical authorities make that call.

Also, at Medjugorje you have another compounded problem of what is happening with those receiving messages and what is happening with some people associated with certain groups surrounding the visionaries. The Franciscans run the parish there, and I have heard rumors about how there are some groups who are not approved by the parish who try to seem as though they represent Medjugorje and the visionaries. So, proper discernment is necessary.

For me personally, I don't know everything about the visions at Medjugorje, but I did receive the monthly messages for a while, and I must say that I never saw anything in the messages, which contradicted the faith of the Church. The main message I kept seeing was now is a time of grace, pray often and with your heart and fast so that you may know Christ's peace. Not too heterodox, if I may say so.

I haven't read anything by any of the visionaries, so I don't know their theology. Please let me know if I'm missing something here.

I did attend a couple of rosaries and masses in the States at Churches with Ivan. My impression was that he was a simply man and sincere. He didn't seem to me to be off-balance or attention grabbing (things which would raise a red flag in my mind). I can't tell you he definitely saw Mary, but I think something was going on.

I'd be very interested in reading the letter you mention from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith (the Congregation of the Propagation of the Faith deals with the Church in mission territories) because I didn't know that they pronounced any judgement on Medjugorje. Please let me know the name of the letter (you should be able to find it on the Vatican website).

Also, I'd be careful about quoting Canon Law and Catechism paragraphs (btw you might want to check the numbers of the catechism paragraphs). One needs to understand their context and the principles behind them so as to not apply them inappropriately.

Peace and Goodness

Edit: Thanks for those sources. It has given me much to think about. As I said, I didn't know everything about Medjugorje. The formenting of disunity in the Church is definitely not something that would speak in the favor of its authenticity.

Just as a note, one of the things that these sources keep mentioning as a criteria for discernment is the virtue of the seers. I just want to make sure it is clear that this is only one criteria and not an absolute one. La Salette is an approved Marian apparition where the two seers were not necessarily all that holy. Neither did they become holy. The boy, later on said, "The Blessed Virgin left me as she found me" meaning he didn't change from that encounter.

Answer 5

Pope John Paul II has said he would go if he could. Pope Benedict has himself been there. They never declare a vision until after it has ended to make sure the Evil One has not subverted it. It is not essential that a person believe in it though as it is not official at this time. Lourdes, Fatima they are official and what is being said there is not that much different than what is being said at Medugorje.

I myself think people pay too much attention running after the miraculous and not paying enough attention to the real miracle that happens at every Mass. I also wonder about any vision or supposed vision that points to anyone other than Jesus for Salvation. The Blessed Virgin Mary has appeared and has spoken to people but, we need to be very careful because the Evil One hates her and he will try anything to discredit her for instance her image on a grilled cheese sandwich--come on. he knows that when he does that he ridicules her appearances so that the real ones are not taken for what they are. As far as Medugorje goes the Bishop there has had it in for them ever since it started and the clergy all over the world is split on it. I think here again the fruit is good so you may judge by that. Some people have experienced real conversion and I don't think the Devil had that in mind if this was his intent to confuse the faithful..

Answer 6

I was baptised Catholic 69 years ago. I have no idea what you're talking about. Can I still be a Catholic? Let's see-I've been baptised Catholic, have received the sacrament of Confirmation and Marriage. If I have no idea who or what Mejugorie is-I can still say I'm a Catholic. Why do you want to stir up trouble?

Answer 7

The Church has been changing around the rules since the beginning of its existence. Ever heard of Vatican I or Vatican II? What one Pope says may not be what another Pope says.

And to the first replyer, ALL religions are hypocritical.

Answer 8

I do believe that the visionaries saw what they said they saw.What l dont believe is that it was the Blessed Virgin they saw. At the very
least, the visions were discredited by the local bishop (Bishop Zanic)
they were further declared preternatural and not supernatural by
a competent committee of theologians.

ln any case how can you trust any person who disobeys, not just
a priest, but a bishop no less?

Answer 9

I have collected some links of articles rich in information:

For Medjugorje

http://www.marian-times.com/articles/medjugorje/unity-publishing.cfm

http://www.medjugorje.ws/en/articles/church/medjugorje-position-church/?page=3&olmsession=2b55c58c2d45ebaaa31958bd2b545dc3#ch3-1


Against Medjugorje

http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/medjugorje.htm

http://www.theotokos.org.uk/pages/release/trojan.html

http://jloughnan.tripod.com/salmedj.htm


Neutral

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/medjugorje.htm

Answer 10

many catholics dont believe in any visions or apparition wheter it be lourdes or anywhere doesnt make them any more or less catholic then the people that do.