Is this fair or really cruel?

Question

I know a lad who has cerebral palsy and learning difficulties. He has been raised as a jehovah witness and believes in this religion whole-heartedly. He has been told that he can not be baptized because his disability make him "un-perfect". He tells me this means he can not go to their promised land (which I believe is like heaven) and so therefore he will go to hell.
Can anyone explain to me how this can be fair?

Ps it is true I'm afaid to say I'd never be so mean to make it up.

To Danni d21
I'm sorry you don't believe me it the way he put it to me and he was very upset so I don't think he made it up
To Two Tenths He can't read his understanding of this only comes from what he has been told by the people in his chirch and his mum.

Danni d21 that is actually very offensive.
I didn't say you said these things or even anyone from your church so you don't need to be so nasty.
And I say again I would not make this up I care very much for this person and it hurts me to see him hurt in the way he is.

That you're calling me a liar because you don't like what you hear even though it's true that's what's offensive danni.

Answer 1

Alas, more lies. Ok first off, I'm sorry to hear about this person's disability. It's a sad thing and you have my sympathy. However, he is apparently mistaken. I PERSONALLY know of two (2) people who have a mental handicap and BOTH are baptized witnesses of Jehovah. Perhaps it wasn't explained clearly to him. Or it could be the parents' wishes that he not be baptized, though I don't know how that could be...but it's possible. Next, we do NOT, I really can't stress that enough, think we are perfect. We strictly adhere to the Bible and what it says. At Romans 5:12 it states that we all are sinners because it was passed down from Adam and Eve. Also, at Romans 3:23 it says: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." The "promised land" is the promise of a global Paradise earth. (Psalms 37:10,11,29; Matthew 5:5; Isaiah 45:18; Revelation 21:3,4) This Paradise will mean the end to sickness and death...including Cerebral Palsy. (Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 35:4-6) So now I ask you, when God completely abolishes death and sickness, why would he not want this young "lad" there to be cured of his ailments? We serve a loving God who would NEVER be "cruel"! Jehovah wants NO ONE to be destroyed! (2 Peter 3:9) One last thing, we don't believe in a burning, fiery hell. Hell simply means the common grave. So again, someone has apparently not explained things very well to the "lad". I am deeply sorry for this apparent confusion and for this "lad".

Rachel B

Answer 2

All I can tell you is that no where that I can even fathom would anyone not allow some one to be baptized because they have cerebral palsey. No one is perfect now and many of Jehovah's Witnesses have disabilities. Also, no one that knows the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses would say that they would go to hell, since we do not believe in hell as the religions of Christiandom do...hell is the common grave of mankind, not some fiery place of eternal torment and punishment. I read your comments to danni, although I haven't read her answer yet, and I will say that it IS hard to believe that your question and the situation you describe is real. It does not ring true at all, if it is, then I am sorry, but it is just very far-fetched and not consistant with our beliefs, which are based completely on the Bible.

Answer 3

This question is intended to slander Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe as this questioner pretends, because the bible teaches nearly the opposite.

(Isaiah 35:5-6) At that time [after Armageddon] the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness

(Acts 8:6-7) The crowds were paying attention... Moreover, many that were paralyzed and lame were cured.

http://watchtower.org/e/19990608/article_04.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/20020501/article_02.htm

Answer 4

That is rubbish. Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in hell as it is unscriptural. They also realise that no-one is perfect, disabled or not. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that "the righteous will possess the earth forever" and that many Witnesses will be part of that group rather than going to heaven.

The only people you will fool with this is people who are already disgruntled against the Witnesses in the first place. Poor.

Answer 5

My apologies for the length of this post. But your question necessitated it.

“A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can put on its shoes.” This saying has been attributed to Mark Twain.

““By clever and persevering use of propaganda even heaven can be represented as hell to the people, and conversely the most wretched life as paradise.” This saying is found in the book Mein Kampf by Hitler.

We are all of us in information overload – hardly able to process what comes at us. Because this is so, many readily absorb and accept messages without questioning or analyzing them. It is fairly easy to manipulate information on Internet sites; particularly this one where emotions are agitated and insecurities are exploited. You will forgive me if I say absolutely no one on this site has any reason to accept your story as credible. But the disgruntled as well as those quick to sling around the cult label readily take your story as truth and further support for their already deeply entrenched position – that Witnesses are cruel, cultish and unfair.

In this regard, you have reached your goal. I do not know you. I do not know the lad. Virtually no one else on this site does either. There is no way to verify your story and in this way it is worse than an urban legend. I am, however, wholly familiar with Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am intimately familiar with their doctrines and teachings. I am also wholly familiar with the ambiguity of language and the ease with which it can be manipulated.

Iron lungs were invented to help people whose chest muscles have been paralyzed by polio. Just about the only person I have heard of who could not be baptized was Laurel Nisbet, born in 1912 and died in 1985 after having lived over 30 years in an iron lung. I look forward to meeting her in the resurrection – she was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. There could be others – I am not sure.

The Bible shows that baptism by complete immersion is very important. So even when a person’s condition causes unusual steps to be necessary, the person should be baptized if at all possible.

Jesus told his disciples: “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them . . . , (Matt. 28:19, 20) This is one of the principal reasons Witnesses engage in their door to door ministry in imitation of Jesus and the first century Christians. So the suggestion that they withhold the very thing they constantly preach about is ludicrous at the very least of it and questionable at the very worst of it.

I wanted to share this excerpt from our 1979 Bible Journal article “Questions from Readers: Is baptism necessary for a person who wants to be immersed but whose very poor health or old age would make that risky?”

“Fully valid baptisms have even been performed locally in large home bathtubs. This has been helpful to those with a heart condition, of advanced age or with especially frail health. The tub water could be warmed and thus present no strain on the person. And the candidate could very calmly and gradually be placed in the water. Once acclimated to it, the actual baptism could occur.

But what about extraordinary cases? Even in many of these immersion has been possible. Persons with open wounds or permanent holes in the throat have been baptized. The wound was covered with a piece of plastic and briefly sealed at the edges with tape. Also, there have been baptisms of persons who need to use a mechanical respirator. Arrangements were made for a doctor or a trained nurse to help. The paralyzed person was moved into the water while he breathed through a tube and mouthpiece. Then, for the moment of baptism, the mouthpiece was taken out, the rest of the body submerged and, immediately upon coming above the surface, the mouthpiece was replaced. Such cases illustrate that, even though special care or precautions may be needed, in almost all cases baptisms can be performed.

Of course, it might be that in some extreme case baptism would seem absolutely impossible for the time being. Then we trust that our merciful heavenly Father will understand and approve of that willing person who has made a dedication in his heart. (Ps. 103:13, 14; Lam. 3:22) “Jehovah himself examines the righteous one. . . . The upright are the ones that will behold his face.” (Ps. 11:5, 7) Thus we can be confident that, where it is physically impossible to baptize a newly dedicated person, Jehovah will regard the situation mercifully.”

That is the end of the excerpt. I hope this helps you to better understand that whatever the situation you have tried to describe, it comes across as nonsense. I also hope this helps readers to understand that persons ought to take many things that they read here with a truckload of salt. If persons already despise Jehovah’s Witnesses, nothing said will change their mind and I am not inclined to try. That is not my job. But if readers understand the fact that there are always two sides to every story, including the ones readers themselves would like to be heard, they will at least give people the benefit of the doubt. There will come a day when the reader will want that benefit as well.

Hannah J Paul

Answer 6

you are a slander, my son has cerebral palsy and he was baptized. he is perfect. when he was in school he was on the a honor roll. when he graduated high school, he graduated with honors. the promise land is living here on earth forever. even the ones that died when be resurrected here on earth. Jesus resurrected his friend Lazarus, here on earth. if Lazarus was in heaven he would of said something and Jesus would of known that he was in heaven. as far as hell, that is the common grave or Sheol, that is the place that you go when you die. the devil wants you to believe that Jehovah God who is a loving Father would harm you. untrue. slander slander slander

Answer 7

the real question is, "Does destiny exist?" If the respond is specific, then destiny is merciless. We spend ninety% of our lives in misery or soreness and the different 10% appropriate in relaxing/chuffed activities. If no longer then life nonetheless sucks...

Answer 8

I don't believe your story- I know for a fact that A) a Witnesses would never hinder a person with a disability from being baptized, B) that we do not believe that we all go to heaven, and C) we do NOT believe in a fiery hell, and thus would not tell him he is going there for being "un perfect."

We also believe that "all have sinned all fall short of the glory of God," not just those with a disability.

You are making up stories to give Witnesses a bad name. There is no way it is true, especially since I have shown you all the mistakes that your story has regarding our beliefs.

*EVERYONE: ITS NOT TRUE! SHE IS TROLLING AND YOU GUYS ARE FALLING FOR IT!*

What is offensive is this refuse that you are posting to make people dislike Witnesses- anyone who spends a mere 5 minutes listening to our beliefs would tell you the same.

You may kick and scream and throw a tantrum for as long as you like but you TROLLS are easy to spot. The only truth in your statement is . . . well, there is none!

If you are going to lie, the least you could do is try harder to be convincing!

*OK, fine, say you are telling the truth- how do you explain the obvious lack of correct information? If he truly wants to be baptized and believes it is the truth, then why would he provide you with incorrect information? That is 100% counterproductive to our ministry work.*

And Anna- grow up. I learned to ignore your drivel a long time ago. But at least you told the truth about our beliefs (for once!) - too bad you couldn't do the same for us as a group.

Answer 9

I'm somewhat confused. The entire point of Christianity is that we're all imperfect (or "un-perfect," whichever phrase works better,) but that Christ has sacrificed Himself so that we may be redeemed to God.

Answer 10

I am not Jehovah's witness. I am a Christian- so I can only answer from my belief- a disability never will keep the person out of heaven. I feel sorry for this boy who has faith enough to want to be baptized but can't because of a belief that "his imperfection" will keep Him out of heaven. In Christianity, if anyone accepts Christ they are saved and in heaven, disability or not. A person with no disability is not perfect either apart from Christ. JW religion according to this question really makes it a religion of works doesn't it?