Clarification?

Question

According to a synopsis of the book "Pagan Christianity," the following practices have been corrupted, have their origins in paganism, or are practiced in an unscriptural manner:
1. The Order of Worship
2. The Sermon
3. The Church Building
4. The Pastor
5. Sunday Morning Costumes
6. Ministers of Music
7. Tithes and Clergy Salaries
8. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper
9. Christian Education

This is now the THIRD time I have posted this requesting a book review. The author of this book is a practicing Christian and does not believe the Gospel is pagan, but that many of our practices are either pagan, or have been corrupted or are simply unscriptural in the way they are practiced.

IF you have READ the book, please comment on it; if not, please refrain. (I have not read the book either)

skalite5: Thanks for the suggestion about the literary criticism section - duh!

iron maiden77: how shall the church ever regain purity without someone pointing out the need for change?

Riegan: if you haven't read it, why comment? This just makes it tough for the rest of us to scroll past the flotsam.

Jill: until you have read it, you can only guess at what he means by the outline I posted (which I pasted from his website)

acanoffleas: what I think is not relevant to what the author has written, which I have not read.

Hi Julie: I absolutely agree that the Bible is our source for worship. Where in the Bible does it say Christians should sit and listen to a sermon every week? That's why I'm curious about the book (the author is a Christian)

Seth & Jack: arrrgghhgh! No readee no respondee! It's just common courtesy!

azred_tx: I'm a cheapskate, not the author. I will buy and read if it appears worth the $7.

phrog: Thanks! You seem to be the only one who read what I asked. I will take your input under advisement.

Lykaion: I wasn't asking for a point by point legitimization/refutation of the points 1-9. I'm not even certain what the author has to say about each (I got this from his website.) Have you read the book?

Hi Tagan! I'm guessing the author details why each of the 9 practices have become corrupted, and I was hoping you had read the book.

color_design_jewelry: I know the author's general intent from having read a synopsis on his website. I was hoping for a non-biased (non-author) review. I specifically was NOT after other supposed pagan roots.

Bobby B: admonishment is good, but not what I was after. Have you read the book? Is it worth $7?

Answer 1

This is a 'how deep is the rabbit hole' book -

"Pagan Christianity" is based with historical evidence for the accumulation of religious paganism in the last 1700 years. Most Christians will not find this a pleasant read at first.

Viola proposes that we return to authentic Christianity and let Jesus truly be the HEAD of the church, saying that the "institutional church" is not God's idea, but man's.

The author proports the beilief that why and where the practices of the church matter because they are not in concordance with the nature of the tru teachings of Jesus.
Tries to offer a quick view of the sacrifices of teachings for the convenience of religion.

Answer 2

I admit I have not read the book, but it sort of looks like you (the one asking the Question) may have, since you know so much about it.

Okay, next time try posting this in Literary Criticism or a different category. You will actually get the answer you are looking for there.
Don't you know that about 95% of Christians won't read anything about Christianity except the Bible? It's a fact.

And if you haven't read the book, how do you know what the author is proposing?

Also, the Christ myth was taken directly from the Mithras Cult that thrived in Roman areas of the world 2000 years ago. In many ways it's exactly the same story almost word for word.

Answer 3

I haven't read the book but it sounds interesting and yes most Christian practices are based on Pagan traditions. I'm not sure about order of worship or sermon but yeah Pagans had temples. The pastor I would think is simply a teacher which Jesus's disciples were so I wouldn't think so. Sunday morning costumes...I can sort of see that. Music, well is just music. I don't think is specifically Pagan. Tithes and salaries...well everyone has to eat. And originally the tithes went to the poor in forms of alms. Baptism is pretty Christian not Pagan. Lords supper I can see. Pagans celebrate around feasts and food. Christian education? That one I don't understand. Most Pagans welcomed science, math and philosophy.

Answer 4

I am not a big fan of the modern church structure, but I think Frank Z. is stretching things a little far. Many points can be argued about his point of view regarding most of his hypothisis of the valididty of these church practices.
Many of these practices were done in the old testament and I regard the whole scripture as having an important part in what Christians practice today. (I do not say, "Old Testament is no longer valid.")
The practice of holding a service to worship God in a building was first done when Israel came back from captivity to rebuild the temple. You will find it in the pages of Ezra.
Worship and praise were always a part of what God's people have done to in honoring God and though Frank Z. says it is not done in a biblical fashion it is aways good and God will always listen to who worships him no matter how. (Just think of a person who can not talk or hear or see.)
Paul tells us in Corinthians that though men may have wrong motives or right motives still Christ is preached so I don't know why Frank Z. would try to pick on the Sermon.
Just want to say Frank Z. is a good man with his opinion, but don't take every word he says as gospel.
God bless and remember scripture tells us in Hebrews, "25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."
God bless.

Answer 5

1. Yes, the order of worship in formalized and ritualized demoninations (I will not name names) has its origins in the legitimacy of the emperor Constantine's legal acceptance of Christianity.
2. No, the sermon per se, is an ancient practice. Ancient Israelite custom was to read the sacred text and a rabbi or teacher comment on the text. The practice of providing an uplifted plaza for this has pagan origins, however. Many aspects of corporate worship were more formalized once the emperor officially recognized Christianity as a legal religion (an emperor who BTW never fully converted until he was on his death-bed).
3. No, the idea of a building for corporate worship is grounded in Israel's tabernacle/temple. Yes, the early church had no formal buildings designated as churches, but more because of being too busy trying to aviod persecution than because they thought it pagan.
4. No, the pastor or episkapos or presbuteros is there from the beginning of Christ's ministry and grounded in ancient Israel's conception of Yahweh as the shepherd of Israel.
5. Yes, see above. Many Sunday morning custumes go hand in hand with "1" and "2" above.
6. Minister of music I cannot comment on.
7. No, this concept is again as Old as the Hebrew scriptures (our Old Testament). The ancient Israelite tithe was expressly for the purpose of providing for the priests and Levites who could not own property and thus could not raise crops or livestock. Jesus and Paul both legitimize the practice.
8. No, no and no. Both were instituted by Yeshua the Messiah Himself, and for very specific reasons.
9. It seems this one deserves no comment. Rabbinical schools existed far prior to the coming of Christ. He did not despair of them, He only despaired of the human pride they produced.

In short, God often overtakes the practices of "pagan" societies that are noble and serve a useful function. Much of ancient Israel's laws are based on "pagan" codes. If all humans are created in God's image, then it stands to reason that all cultures have some good qualities--for example, all cultures say you should love your mamma.

Answer 6

First, you must ask this author to EXPLAIN BIBLICALLY why these practices are paganistic, ritualistic, or otherwise corrupted.

Second, his statement sounds all inclusive, but each of those nine events are different for different beliefs, so he must clarify which denomination he wishes to address. I am Baptist, and none of our activities of those type contradict even a single scripture. But, even some Baptist do it differently than others (i.e. some wear choir robes while my church doesn't).

Now, Not one of the things listed above results in any contradiction of scripture. As for the paganistic origins, one must keep in mind that October's Halloween is an explicit representation of a Satanistic and demonic ritual. However, many (including the so-called "religious") do not let that hinder them from observing and enjoying that event. (I don't observe it... it's just like any other day for me). Therefore, the paganistic challenge is negated.

Anything else?

Answer 7

I know you asked non-readers of the book to not respond, but I HAVE read the earliest, complete books of the 'bible' in the Lost Scriptures. I have not yet read the dead sea scrolls.

But if you compare the original thoughts and practices near the time of Christ to mid-evil to modern ideas, you will see how much corruption there has been in biblical texts. I will make it a point to read this book.

Thanks for the clue.

Answer 8

Bah, I balk at your comment on not commenting if you haven't read it. Sorry. :)

Look, socio-economically speaking, the church's goal when first starting out was to attract as many members as possible. it would make sense to "adopt" popular pagan rituals into the church in order to attract and keep new members. It's survival, in a way. All religions have "stolen" something from each other. It would be foolish to assume that Christianity came up with all the pomp on its own...

Answer 9

True Christian worship has it's origins in TRUTH, not in some false pagan lies and distortions of the truth! I don't care who the author of the book is. The Bible and the Bible alone is our only source for knowledge on God and His ways

Answer 10

christian practices havent been corrupted by pagan beiels. they were founded on them. nearly all of the ideas and stories in the bible are just different versions of stories and ideas found in other religions. its like they stole bits and pieces of other religions, threw them all together and ended up thinking that everyone copied them.