The Bible says "Jesus' brothers." The Catholic Church says "maybe cousins, maybe favorite disciples."

Question

When will the Catholic Church admit James and Jose were Jesus' brothers? If the bible says "brothers," shouldn't we accept the infallable word of God as true instead of making up stories about why it isn't? Almost all other theologians have thrown in the towel and admitted the virgin had other kids. When will the Catholic Church?

Answer 1

Due to the fact that these
Christians use the Protestant Old Testament which is lacking 7 entire books 2 (Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus/Sirach, Baruch, I Maccabees, and II Maccabees), 3 chapters of Daniel and 6 chapters of Esther may be one of the reasons they ask catholics so many questions.

For the Sola Scriptura this is too bad .
In the 16th c., Luther removed those books from the canon that lent support to orthodox doctrine, relegating them to an appendix. Removed in this way were books that supported such things as:

prayers for the dead (Tobit 12:12; 2 Maccabees 12:39-45),

Purgatory (Wisdom 3:1-7),

intercession of dead saints (2 Maccabees 15:14),

and intercession of angels as intermediaries (Tobit 12:12-15).

The lesson, though, is this: relying on the "Bible alone" is a bad idea; we are not to rely solely on Sacred Scripture to understand Christ's message. While Scripture is "given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16-17), it is not sufficient for reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. It is the Church that is the "pillar and ground of Truth" (1 Timothy 3:15)! Jesus did not come to write a book; He came to redeem us, and He founded a Sacramental Church through His apostles to show us the way. It is to them, to the Church Fathers, to the Sacred Deposit of Faith, to the living Church that is guided by the Holy Spirit, and to Scripture that we must prayerfully look.


any further questions, try this website:

http://www.fisheaters.com/beingcatholic....

Answer 2

If the Bible is your only source of truth, then you cannot possibly say that Mary had any child other than Jesus. There is no record of her giving birth to a second, third or fourth child or whatever. There is no record of her having sex with Joseph, for that matter, even though the Bible records other couples having sex (Adam & Eve, David & Bathsheba, etc.)

"Firstborn" also applies to only children. An only child is also first born and last born. In Biblical times, the role of the firstborn was very important because he had obligations to his parents. An only child would be called firstborn, too, and hold all those obligations.

As for the "brothers" -- as previously cited, Aramaic is loose on these definitions, and a "brother" could easily be a cousin. And even if the brothers of Jesus really were brothers, there are other ways to get brothers than your mother giving birth to them. They could have been adopted, for example -- yes, orphans were adopted back in those days, as life expectancy was a lot lower than it is today. I personally agree with the theory that the brothers were Jesus' step-brothers, children of Joseph from his first marriage, Joseph being a widower. Women died in childbirth rather often in those days, and Joseph was held to be older than Mary by quite a bit. Further proof that the brothers were older - when Jesus stayed at the temple at age 12, Mary returned with Joseph to find Jesus. Had there been younger children (and there most certainly would have been if she wasn't remaining a virgin, since she had no artificial birth control), Mary could not possibly have journeyed back a whole day with all those little kids, especially whatever baby she would have been nursing. Also, Jesus gave Mary to John's care as He died on the Cross. Had Mary given birth to additional children, Jesus would not have done this; her other kids would have cared for her as a matter of family honor. The fact that Jesus needed somebody to take care of His mother indicates He was her only child.

Answer 3

Maybe my way of thinking is a bit carnal, but can you imagine Joseph, after being visited by an angel, being told that Mary is pregnant with the Messiah, told not to put her away, and then he wants to have carnal sex with the Mother of the Messiah after he witnesses this incredible birth?

And the Catholic Church's belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary is something that the earliest Christians, taught directly by the apostles who knew Mary, believed. I think they'd know something about it.

Not only that, but those early Christians personally KNEW
those who were called "Brethren" and "sisters" of the Lord.
Mary's perpetual virginity is a belief that goes all the way back to that very time, and could never have gotten off the ground if the early church knew that those brethren were children of Mary's womb.

LineDancer:
**Matthew 1:24-25 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: and knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.**

If "till" (EOS in Greek) means that Joseph and Mary had sexual relations after the Birth of Jesus, then the same Greek word--EOS--in Matthew 28:20 (same Gospel, mind you!) means that as of the end of the world, Jesus will no longer be with us.

Furthermore, "firstborn son" has a technical meaning in Judaism. It does not mean the woman ever had other children. It means that her FIRST pregnancy resulted in the LIVE birth of a MALE child.

Answer 4

Keep in mind that the New Testament was written in Greek. In the Greek, the word used is not an exact translation meaning "brother". The Koine Greek did not have a seperate word denoting "cousin" or "half brother".

Church tradition has it that Joseph was actually a much older man, and was a widower who already had grown or nearly grown children, when he took the pregnant Mary as his wife.

Answer 5

"Almost all"

This is a completely new heresy, Calvin and Luther both believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary.

The only theologians that really believe this are ones that made money off of the FICTIONAL book, the Davinci Code.

This is not even an old heretical belief. Jesus calls all people our "Brothers"

when he addressed thousands of people, he said "Brothers and Sisters" does that mean that our Blessed Mother had thousands of children?

Do some real research, please do not base your beliefs on a fictional book.

Scientology anyone?

Peace!

Answer 6

Tell me, how fluent are you in aramaic?

Are you familiar with the fact it has no word for cousin, or aunt, or nephew, or neice, or uncle, or grandfather, or grandmother, or any other of the extended familial terminology?

In classical Aramaic, your aunt would be called your mother, your uncle your father, your cousin would be called your brother or sister.

As such, no, the Bible cannot be considered the last word in this, because we have new words to be more precise. Information was lost because of the language used in the original writings.

Of course, information loss sure does go against the idea of an infallible deity. Hrm. But if we can't trust the Bible... well... I'm sure you see the Catch-22 here for Christians.

Answer 7

John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene."

Mark 15:40 "There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome."

There were three Marys at the crucifixion. One was the mother of Jesus, one was Mary Magdelene and one was the mother of James and Joses.

As you can see in John 19:25, we know that the virgin Mary had a sister who was also named Mary. She was the wife of Cleophas. We also know that Cleophas is the father of James the less.

So, the scripture itself shows that James and Joses are the cousins of Jesus, since their mother was the virgin Mary's sister.

Answer 8

Any other Catholics get tired of this same old discussion?

How hard is it to understand that there are a lot of words in the Bible that are difficult to translate from the original text? The word "brother" as used in that passage could refer to any male relative: cousin, uncle, etc. This is simple enough to validate.

claire b, I am going to pray for you...you poor misguided soul.

Answer 9

I believe Joseph was much older than Mary and had children by another woman that died before he married Mary. Therefore, Joseph's sons by his first wife would be considered Jesus's brothers. I believe Jesus was born of a virgin like the Bible says and that Mary had other children after Jesus's birth.

Answer 10

If they declare that James and John were trully Jesus' maternal brothers then it will contradict their doctrine that Mary remained a virgin. And it will probably have negative repercussions on their treatment and veneration of Mary, which might result to a dominoe effect on their other teachings, doctrines, views and values.
But one thing is sure, whoever formulated that Mary has no children is a an enemy of the truth.