Am I the only women tired of this male only stuff in high levels of power?

Question

I’m talking about this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=460991&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811&expand=true#StartComments
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not against average men going out with the guys sans ladies but when you get a bunch of very powerful men like it describes where they hold power over laws, stock options, wars, upcoming films, etc. THEN I think the rules should be a little more stringent. We would never allow racism at even a low level so why do women still tolerate men in power excluding us? It especially irritates me that they have such affection for a topless model and that posters of women’s bodies are allowed- but nothing about our thoughts.

I'm not saying racism doesn't happen but only that it's (usually) considered wrong, there's a difference.

ecogeek4ever: I'm only referring to the line "Since club rules ban all women except those employed to work at events, they cannot invite Sian herself."

Women are BANNED unless they are servants. I don't know if other types are banned but we all know it's not realistic to invite everybody to everything. Try having a party like that yourself. Yes, the women would be elite- that's the idea. They aren't just servants.

Shaun: You bring up an important question but I'm not really talking about regulation so much as why women just allow everything while ethnic minorities often wouldn't take it. In other words, my gripe is with the media. Movies aren't that big of a deal but let's face it, Hollywood does have power. I have no issues with people just because they are elite (male or female) but only some of their principles- like sexism.

ecogeek4ever: We can just agree to disagree. I don't care what you call an employee but a servant is just "a person that serves". I wasn't suggesting that a "person that serves" is bad. I think the more lowly word you're looking for is slave? I know very well what functions these employees might perform and it isn't hobnobbing with the elite most times. My argument wasn't based on ordinary average people anyway. It was based on positions of power. I strongly believe more is expected of them because the decisions they make control the lives of so many people. Including the majority of humans on this earth otherwise known as women. Also, if a women is only permitted if she's on a poster- but not real life. . . doesn't that fit the description of "only being allowed as entertainment."

What about if a women (or man) had a sex change operation? Should that be allowed then and if so which way?

Shaun: My mother is a member of the DAR & DAC but I don't think they’re sexist because there are equivalent groups. Mensa discriminates by TALENT, not biology and although some might argue that things like the DAR, DAC or esp. that Ancient Planter group are discriminatory I think it just has to do with interest because why would someone want to discuss ancestors they don't even have? I don't even care if idiots join in like minded groups (privately or certain approved public functions) including the KKK but I don’t want people in power to get away with it via the media- not by banning the KKK for example. I agree that women are biologically different from men but that’s just it. How does it apply HERE? I'm FOR separation based on biology. I'm against uni-sex bathrooms, same sex hospitals, etc. In terms of your last statement I'm the same way but if the media doesn't report it how would I know? Restrictions and knowledge are a different matter.

To me this is funny. I'm an American Southern woman and I've seen lots of stuff off the Internet that say we're docile and submissive yet here I'm considered one of those feminist types. Whoa!! Funny. Shows how stupid people are. Why do some men here possess such issues with women? Are women aggressive where you live? I've never seen some of this extreme kind of behaviour at all. Where I'm from people seem to think a lot of Southern men are jerks who hate women but no, they are mostly complete gentlemen.

The answers to this question only add to my opinion that a large part of the problem with the world is faulty logic. It's so bad I think we need to go back and teach logic in school because you certainly can't learn if you can't even think. Many of the men on here are borderline hysterical and lacking in the ability to properly reason. Almost none address the question I asked and just skip to their own problems. I know I don't own or attend a women's only gym so I can't control that, I've NEVER had or attended a women's only retreat, I'm not sure why someone would think I have problems with a man attending childbirth... it's unbelievable. It doesn't address my question about men in power and I think it's interesting that a lot of average men are so interested in siding with rich and powerful men. Does any man here think they will be invited to one of these retreats any time soon? Some of us like to think for ourselves and some of us like to dream.

Oh, almost didn't notice

Shaun: I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying either but I'm not talking about RULES. I just want the media to report inequality like they do with racism where they're usually on top of it. I don't care about rules or even forbid, "apologies". What's wrong with wanting to know what a politician, CEO, or celebrity you spend money on is really like?

Mensa is irrelevant because it's not based on biology. Sexism is. Lots of things (like being a good athlete) may have a biological component but they aren't BASED on them. I'm not against groups based on common interests but I just don't consider a race or gender a good interest in terms of power. (Average Joe/Jill I guess it's okay) Incidentally, I'm also against plain old "women's groups" because I don't pretend to identify with over 50% of the population.

Answer 1

Yeah. I believe that when men and women share positions of power and be themselves that we get more balance in all aspects of life. There are benefits for both men and women in the sharing of power. It's hard to access something you've been blocked out of. Women used to be accepted in small numbers relative to their interest in male dominated spheres. But things changed for the worse, possibly influenced by religion, blocking women out completely. When they gained access again it was by competing with and acting like men. I think men and women have different leadership and decision making styles and often the best person for a job is a woman yet women rarely hold the top positions. You know what they say. Money changes everything. Women with money need to bring other women up with them.

Answer 2

It is just a thought but did anyone wonder just why it is that none of the members of the club had ever been able to find out who the "unknown beauty" actually was? So much for their power and influence. It took Me 38 minutes. And I started from scratch.
Shouldn't You have asked the question, "Am I the only PERSON tired of this Male Only stuff in high levels of power"? Rather than alienate half Your audience? How do You propose to enforce Your particular definition of what can and cannot take place amongst consenting adults? Be very careful where You tread. Where is the proof substantiating this story? It was published in a British newspaper. The words 'alleged' and 'believed to'... may not be in the transcript, but I'm pretty sure they are some where close to the Publishers Lawyers hearts.Would They really let it go to press without naming their sourse or printing a disclaimer? As I understand it the entire story is based on 'hear say'.
Is what goes on at this club any different to the rituals performed at any number of "cultural" gatherings conducted throughout the world by both Men's and Women's "social" groups? Would You ban Men from the Delivery Room for the sake of a Woman's modesty? Stop the changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace? Prevent opening of Congress? Put an end to 'VFW' rallies? Prevent the members of the National Organisation of Men against Sexism (NOMAS) to hold 'Mens Groups'? Because that is what will happen in the end. The more You try to get Your share of the 'good life' the more You stratify and compartmentalize society. Think about how things have changed since the 1960's, and how the tiers of society have opened at one end, and closed ranks at the other. You are only adding leverage to the wedge.

Answer 3

It's a private club. How would you regulate who can go to a private club? Would such a regulation affect clubs down to a local level? Then what's the barrier between a private club and a group of friends getting together?

I think gentlemens' clubs are stupid anyway but I don't see how you could (or should) regulate this sort of thing. And how the hell does upcoming films rate along side laws and wars? BTW, as another poster pointed out, even if they did allow women those women would be the rich and powerful just like the men. They would not be on your side.

Edit: I agree with you on the one hand. I find sexism and racism deplorable. On the other hand... I already think people should be allowed to gather in whatever groups they please. Logically, I must therefore be okay even with clubs that have a racist or other discriminatory theme (at least it tells us something about the members if we identify them). I just don't think there's a way to fairly regulate that (and if women were to 'not put up with it' how would they do this except by passing laws?). If we did we'd have to expunge ALL groups that have select criteria for membership. I find race-oriented groups the stupidest of all (at least women are actually biologically different from men) but most people seem okay with clubs for minorities or women. Is a Christian women's club (there was one at my HS) unacceptable? What about mensa?

If I ran across a club that excluded me on the basis of race or gender I might call them a**holes but I'd just move on with my life--I wouldn't want to associate with people like that anyway.

Edit: I'm not sure what you mean. How would you prevent people in power from getting away with it? What do you propose doing?

As for Mensa, intelligence is certainly a biological characteristic. I think the difference is, it's not silly to think that people with a specialized interest, ability, or commonality want to get together, but it sounds ridiculous when done on the basis of "race." So how would you delineate what is and isn't an acceptable organization criteria?

Answer 4

Men can have their clubs it doesn't make much of a difference to me if they debate, drink and ogle posters of half dressed women. However, when deciding things like "laws, stock options, wars, upcoming films, etc" why should anyone be left out? Even if the clubs decided to allow women it would be a select few of the most rich and most powerful (those that could afford the £5,000 dinner). When important decisions are being made everyone should have a voice... not just the white, rich, powerful, men.

EDIT: Being a servant and being employed are two different things. The people hired to work such events are not different then the people hired to serve as bartenders, waitresses etc at weddings and other events. You may argue that weddings are not for men only... but suppose someone decided to throw a party for herself and her female friends and hired a bartender, wait staff, and caterer these people are not servants they are paid a fair wage. They are employed in difficult occupations and should not be degraded to a lessor "servant" status. I would be more insulted if they refused to hire women as caterers, waitstaff, and bartenders... and women were only allowed as hired "entertainment".

Answer 5

I believe that goes under the heading of 'sexual harassment' if (a) you don't want it and (b) you ask him to cut it out and he keeps doing it. It's pretty obviously just what you think it is - he's hitting on you. He'll probably be rationalizing it as "being supportive" or some other such silliness, but you just don't hug and pet someone who you're not involved with, especially if she works for you. Your choices are: let him work you into bed or tell him to quit it and probably get another job.

Answer 6

At the end of the day, business decisions are made about money, not gender. If you want to rise to the top of a corporation, be a moneymaker and no one will care whether you are male or female. Anything else is just ineffectual whining and excuse-making.

Answer 7

Its a private club so in my eye's it's up to them who they let in. why should they change there policy just because a group of women think they are missing out on something. Instead of bitching about what other people are doing concentrate on your own life and live it to the full.

Answer 8

Your rant is a good example of why men cannot trust women into their sanctums. Can you relate? How about allowing men into your 'womens only retreats'?

Answer 9

Most women's thoughts center around how much they despise men, so of course most women's thoughts do not matter to most men.

Answer 10

Certainly not ! Every right-thinking person is by your side when it comes to anyone boasting about being above LAW !