Is this a contradiction?

Question

According to the King James Bible at John 8:58, trinity believers feel that Jesus was claiming to be the great I AM of Exodus 3:14. If that is the case, why would he call his Father the ONLY true God at John 17:3?

Answer 1

Well, no, it is not a contradiction. What Jesus was saying is that even before Abraham existed, he existed. He is the first of Jehovah's creation, that is why he is called the first-born, and the only-begotten Son of God. After Jesus( God's Son) was created, Jehovah used Jesus to create all other things, both in the heavens and on the earth, so Jesus was a spirit person existing long, long before Abraham. He was in no way trying to say that he was God, since he taught that Jehovah (the Father) is the only true God.

Psalm 83:18: "That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth."

(John 15:26-27) “. . .When the helper arrives that I will send YOU from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; 27 and YOU, in turn, are to bear witness, because YOU have been with me from when I began.”

If one has inaccurate knowledge, then the spirit of the truth is not in them, and they are being misled...

(Revelation 12:9) “. . .So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth;...

So in short, what the Bible says is not a contradiction, but the trinitarian belief is a contradiction to what the Bible clearly teaches...so Jesus can't be God, if the Father is the only true God. Jesus is the Son. He occupies the second highest position that there is, but it is still second, and not the same or equal to God's position. The trinitarian belief is very dishonoring not only to God, but to the Son, Jesus as well, who came to teach us the truth about his Father. Anything that is not the truth does not come from God, and does not honor God.

Answer 2

Easiest explanation is a simile using the product "3 in 1 Oil". There are 3 types of Oil in the one can. Each has a certain "Property" such as "Anti-Foaming" etc. They however all come out at once to get the job done. God is to the best of our Knowledge very much the same. All three members of the Trinity are just the same, only different. In John 17:3, Christ is as a Man and is saying that among all the "gods" that Man has created, none is "True" as He (the Father) is. And that He Jesus was sent to Glorify the Father & "Manifest" (make known) God before the World. John

Answer 3

Jesus is God, the Great I Am of Exodus. Just like you stated, before Abraham WAS, I AM. Christ has been since the foundation of the World (John 1). Also, if you read where John the Baptist baptizes Jesus, you will find where Jesus is standing in the water, God the Father calls down from heaven, and the Holy Spirit descends as a dove... all at the same time... PROVING that each exist as separate being, yet one God. Also, Jesus says in John 10:30 that "I and my Father are ONE." (emphasis added)

Hope this helps! If not, email me and I can clarify for you .... no problem at all.

(@yahoo.com): brainfriedperson


P.S. how did that go with you talking with your pastor about the children randomly walking around in church?

Answer 4

The concept of trinty was latter introduced by paul. IT has no basis in any religon. We muslims belive Jesus to be one of the mightiest messangers of GOD, but not God himself. In every age did God sent humans a warner, but some people took their prophets to be GOD. THe reasons christiats say jesus is son of god is because of the concept of orignal sin. Christians belive that since adam ate the forbidden fruit, the whole mankind will now be born in sins, hence to remove the sins of mankind, God sacrificed his only beggoten son to remove all sins of mankind.

This is not even common sense according to us muslims. For example, if you hire a servent, and he does something very wrong, and the next day you tell him that instead of punishing you, I will sacrifice my son and then your sin will be paid for. Sounds stupid right. But then you attribute the same thing to God who is obvisouly more just and wise than us. God is almighty, and he does not need to sacrifice anything for that matter to forgive us. All God does is send messangers to earth to warn us humans in every age. God says in the Quran that in every age did He send a warner and a guide. Jesus was also a warner. Plus, why should I or you be held responsible if adam ate the forbiden fruit. Did adam ask me or you before eating it???.

It was paul who corrupted the teachings of Jesus by elavating his status from messanger to GOd or son of GOd so that now he could say that since jesus the son of god or god has died for our sins, hence we are scott free to do whatever we want.

Even for someone with common sense this would be easy to point out. May God Give you eyes to see the true path. GOd is might, HE is ONE and ONLY, no sons, no daughters, no reletives. He is nothing like us. He is unique.

FOr more details read the quran in the language you understand the best to understand the muslims view point on Jesus who we respect very highly.

Answer 5

Yes,

Before Abraham was, I am. is proper Greek.

But it is improper English.

If you walked up to your English teacher and said

"Before you came, I am" You would be corrected for mixing tenses.

"Before you came, I was" You have to keep past tenses with each other.

In Greek you can mix the tenses are still be correct.

If you believe in the 'Great I am', The next time someone asks you how old are you, Tell them your name.

and see what funny looks you get.

Answer 6

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Answer 7

Gr., πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί (prin A·bra·am′ ge·ne′sthai e·go′ ei·mi′) So does JOHN 8:58 “I Am” refer to Jesus at Exodus 3:14?

According to RS reads: “Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am [Greek, e·go′ ei·mi′].’” (NE, KJ, TEV, JB, NAB all read “I am,” some even using capital letters to convey the idea of a title. Thus they endeavor to connect the expression with Exodus 3:14, where, according to their rendering, God refers to himself by the title “I Am.”) However, in NW the latter part of John 8:58 reads: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (The same idea is conveyed by the wording in AT, Mo, CBW, and SE.)

Which rendering agrees with the context? The question of the Jews (verse 57) to which Jesus was replying had to do with AGE, not identity. Jesus’ reply logically dealt with his age, the length of his existence. Interestingly, no effort is ever made to apply e·go′ ei·mi′ as a title to the holy spirit.

Says A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research, by A. T. Robertson: “The verb [ei·mi′] . . . Sometimes it does express existence as a predicate like any other verb, as in [e·go′ ei·mi′] (Jo. 8:58).”—Nashville, Tenn.; 1934, p. 394.

1. Fourth/Fifth Century Syriac—Edition: “before Abraham was, I have been” A Translation of the Four Gospels from the Syriac of the Sinaitic Palimpsest, by Agnes Smith Lewis, London, 1894.

2. Fifth Century Curetonian Syriac—Edition: “before ever Abraham came to be, I was” The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels, by F.Crawford Burkitt, Vol. 1, Cambridge, England, 1904.

3. Fifth Century Syriac Peshitta—Edition: “before Abraham existed, I was” The Syriac New Testament Translated into English from the Peshitto Version, by James Murdock, seventh ed., Boston and London,1896.

4. Fifth Century Georgian—Edition: “before Abraham came to be, I was” “The Old Georgian Version of the Gospel of John,” by Robert P. Blake and Maurice Brière, published in Patrologia Orientalis, Vol. XXVI, fascicle 4, Paris, 1950.

5. Sixth Century Ethiopic—Edition: “before Abraham was born, I was” Novum Testamentum . . . Æthiopice (The New Testament . . . in Ethiopic), by Thomas Pell Platt, revised by F. Praetorius, Leipzig, 1899.

The action expressed in Joh 8:58 started “before Abraham came into existence” and is still in progress. In such situation εἰμί (ei·mi′), which is the first-person singular present indicative, is properly translated by the perfect indicative. Examples of the same syntax are found in Lu 2:48; 13:7; 15:29; Joh 5:6; 14:9; 15:27; Ac 15:21; 2Co 12:19; 1Jo 3:8.

Concerning this construction, A Grammar of the Idiom of the New Testament, by G. B. Winer, seventh edition, Andover, 1897, p. 267, says: “Sometimes the Present includes also a past tense (Mdv. 108), viz. when the verb expresses a state which commenced at an earlier period but still continues,—a state in its duration; as, Jno. xv. 27 ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς μετ’ ἐμοῦ ἐστέ [ap’ ar·khes′ met’ e·mou′ e·ste′], viii. 58 πρὶν ᾿Αβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμι [prin A·bra·am′ ge·ne′sthai e·go′ ei·mi].”

Likewise, A Grammar of New Testament Greek, by J. H. Moulton, Vol. III, by Nigel Turner, Edinburgh, 1963, p. 62, says: “The Present which indicates the continuance of an action during the past and up to the moment of speaking is virtually the same as Perfective, the only difference being that the action is conceived as still in progress . . . It is frequent in the N[ew] T[estament]: Lk 248 137 . . . 1529 . . . Jn 56 858 . . . ”

Attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah, some say that ἐγὼ εἰμί (e·go′ ei·mi′) is the equivalent of the Hebrew expression ’ani′ hu’, “I am he,” which is used by God. However, it is to be noted that this Hebrew expression is also used by man.—See 1Ch 21:17 ftn.

Further attempting to identify Jesus with Jehovah, some try to use Ex 3:14 (LXX) which reads: ᾿Εγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν (E·go′ ei·mi ho on), which means “I am The Being,” or, “I am The Existing One.” This attempt cannot be sustained because the expression in Ex 3:14 is different from the expression in Joh 8:58. Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures it is not possible to make an identification of Jesus with Jehovah as being the same person.

According to The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: “To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, ‘Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.’ Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] ‘I will be what I will be.’” (At Exodus 3:14 “I AM” is used as a title for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised.)

Answer 8

You are taking the English translation a bit narrowly. This is the only true God as opposed to all the false gods.

John 1:1 onward describes Jesus' position in all this.

Whether you accept the trinity belief or not does not alter the fact that the nature of God is not like the nature of mankind. You can't anthropomorphise God.

Answer 9

His Father IS the only true God! Jesus IS the only true God! The Holy Spirit IS the only true God! That describes the Trinity exactly! So does this:

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

.

Answer 10

This is not a contradiction.
Here's a concept: Jesus is Jesus and God is God (they are different)