Atheist only please: The Myth of the Light From the Stars Being Billions of Light Years Away?

Question

Okay. Let me start out by making three points.


1. Scientists cannot measure distances beyond 100 light years accurately. There aren't rulers that big to do that here on Earth.

2. No one knows what light is or that it always travels the same speed throughout all time, space and matter. All we know is God created it.

3. The creation was finished or mature when God made it. Adam was full-grown, the trees had fruit on them, the starlight was visible, etc.

A star may have been created in the outer space so distant that its light would take a long time to reach the earth, and yet the age of the star does not affect the age of the earth. The Bible did not state that all the galaxies in the universe were created at the same time. God has an eternity to create the universe. The One True God created light by just speaking the word and everything, including the stars, were created instantly in that way.

Genesis 1
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Jeremiah 32
17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:

Again, if it were correct then Genesis and all of God's Word would be in contradiction. This is impossible since God is real since the Bible say's He is. Therefore Evolutionism is false.

Answer 1

You're brilliant. No one in here as ever made a question sound so unintelligent with such good grammar and spelling. I'm going to star the question so others can see your brilliance.

Answer 2

Ill strart by stating that im agnostic hence i dont deny the possibility of a god/creator existing. However i have a hard time believing that he exists in the same form as the bible states. I mean why couldent he have made pi = 3? and whats up with all these comets and asteroids littered around space smashing into innocent lizzards? and when you get right down to it, whats he done lately? Also neither science or religion have all the answers. we have a very shakey idea how gravity works for instance. In the bibles case we are told that god created the world in seven days. but we are never told why. I humbly suggest 4 theories.
1 he was bored
2 he has a cruel sense of humour
3 he started out by saying alchohol and the got to work.
4 he did it by accident
And why seven days? he is supposed to be all powerful. he made light by saying "light" why not just say "universe" and take the rest of the week off.

anyway to my answers

1 people have been a bit unfair about your ruler. they are in fact used and the longer the better. two observation points are chosen and the distance between the measured. "redshift" is also used (if you want the whole explanation just google it)

2 both right and wrong. we do know what light is even if we dont really know what the photons themselves are made of (theories exist see "strand theory" - [basically one dimensional viberating things]). also "No one knows what light is or that it always travels the same speed throughout all time, space and matter." we dont know for certain as that would require witnessing it everywhere for all time and most probably in dimensions we dont even know of yet. but in general a scientist develops a lovely theory explaining and then one of his students becomes a scientist too upgrades his computer overturns the theory proving we still know nothing and then gets a medal as if it weere a good thing "All we know is God created it." we dont know that for certain since he never copywrited it.

3 "The creation was finished or mature when God made it. Adam was full-grown, the trees had fruit on them, the starlight was visible, etc." good on adam! no worries about puberty. only problem is if god is finished and not planning to do anymore hes going to be sooo pissed when he ses what happned to the dinosaurs.

4 (i think) "A star may have been created in the outer space so distant that its light would take a long time to reach the earth, " good point. most scientists agree that vast parts of the universe may not be visible because since the universe is expanding light from some stars (those around 15*10^9 + light years) simply hasnt had the time to reach us. which may be a good thing or we could theoretically all be burned to crisps because of the intense heat. "and yet the age of the star does not affect the age of the earth." nope, they havent affected my age either. "The Bible did not state that all the galaxies in the universe were created at the same time." right again. on the other hand we dont know what was (or was not) before the big bang. an explosion so big it warps existence tends to play mayhem with all the helpfull little notes and history books left behind to explain.

"This is impossible since God is real since the Bible say's He is."

bob: god is the boss
dana: how do you know that
bob: my book says so
dana: oh
glen: nope cthulu is in charge
dana: how do you know
glen: i got a book, it says so
dana: oh... you guys should start a club!
bob: nope cant do that
dana: uh, why not
glen: different authours
bob: yep
dana: oh

et infinitum ad absurdum

(editors note, the three friends continued discussed for hours. dana hung herself the next day. bob blew up himself and a group protestants in dublin and glen died of a combination of a drug overdose and several self inflicted wounds to arms wrists and privates. They will be sorely missed.)

P.S. what was the thing with the burning sword and the angel? why bother with a *burning* sword? if someone hits you in the head with a sword the least of your worrys is if its on fire or not. i mean its actually good: your wound is instantly cautarized. and your guarding a tree for god sake! ("for gods sake" he he) trees are made of wood. what you want is a sword of water or ice or something (try ebay). or just bugger it all and invest in a metal sword ...and a hose: incase some feathery basket case shows up and starts juggleing katanas...

Answer 3

God, and hence the Bible, does NOT say the earth is only 6000 years old. That 6000 years is derived from an ASSUMPTION of what the Bible says. So, it is not the interpretation of the days of "Creation Week" that is off -- they are normal 24-hour-days. The assumption is that God created man and all the beasts immediately upon (at the same time as) he created the universe. A very interesting footnote is added to the New International Version of the Bible, that can shed some light on the issue. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was {Footnote: or possibly BECAME} formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. With this understanding, that the earth BECAME the waste and empty place AFTER God had created the universe. There is a gap in the history of creation. Other parts of the Bible show that Satan's rebellion occurred during this gap, and that it was he who laid waste to the earth. The gap is apparently billions of years wide. The scientific estimate of the age of the universe is correct. But a day is still a day in Genesis 1. About 6000 years ago, God repaired the mess, and created man; he did all that in 6 literal, 24-hour days. And that gave us the 7-day week. Our week isn't billions of years long, now is it? .

Answer 4

1. Wrong. Enormous distances ARE VERY measureable. The laws of Physics ARE the same everywhere in the universe, otherwise, we would see MASSIVE waves of turmoil at the places where the different laws of physics bordered upon each other.

2. Wrong again. We DO know what light is. It's a stream of subatomic partcles that exhibit TWO properties, Properties of MATTER, Photons have mass, And properties of waves, Photons contain energy.

3. Let's just suppose that you ARE correct. that GOD made the light of stars a Billion light years awy. Gave that light all the same properties that it currently posesses. Then on that basis, God is LYING to us ALL. He's saying that "I gave the universe existence, I gave the Universe ALL the Laws of physics, it is only a few thousand years old. I'm just messing with your heads by making it SEEM like it's billions of years old". According to your religion, God is incapable of a falsehood, God is incapable of deception, God is ALWAYS good. Then WHY is God LYING to the universe when he "created" light that was ALREADY older than the universe?

The Earth is VERY much younger than the universe. The elements that compose the planet do NOT exist on their own, They had to be produced in stars, only very LARGE stars have the mass and energy to produce elements composed of atoms much larger than Helium and Lithium. Those enormous stars went supernova many billions of years ago and spewed out the heavier elements such as Oxygen, Carbon, Iron etc.. These elements coalesced to form OUR Galaxy, our Solar system and our planet.

The Bible was writen in an age when HUMANS had NO concept of astrophysics. It had to be put down in language that they people of the times could understand. To those people, a vast distance was someplace that you had to travel to by walking for months and years. The idea of a distance further than that had absolutely NO meaning to them.

You are using the words of a work that was created for an ignorant race of people, a LONG time ago, and using those word to determine things as they are today. You are using them as factual evidence of what has been discovered by scientists of the modern era. Scientists don't just "make this stuff up" out of thin air. They base their information on empirical OBSERVATION. Observation of phenomena as they ACTUALLY are and not as some uninformed person TELLS them they are. There ARE no hard and fast "Laws" of science. The LAW of gravity is NOT a law. It is simply a theory. Under normal conditions, when you throw a rock up, it WILL fall. But the theory has been modified because it has been determined that IF you throw a rock up high enough with a MUCH higher speed, that rock will NEVER fall. It will continue to go up and up until it escapes the influence of the gravitational attraction of the Earth. So, just because something is a theory does NOT make it a likely falshood. Scientific theories are developed based on observations. If an observation comes along that doesn't sit with the theory, then the theory WILL end up being revised to include the NEW data. The Bible, on the other hand, has NO provisions for revision. It is totally a work of writing that MUCH of civilization uses for a MORAL basis for society and NOT as a work of Scientific research. Scientific research is published in PEER reviewed journals. Peer reviewing subjects that work to testing by OTHER scientists. The Bible is subject to NO peer review and is therefore UN-reviseable.

Raji the Green Witch

Answer 5

"Again, if it were correct then Genesis and all of God's Word would be in contradiction. This is impossible since God is real since the Bible say's He is. Therefore Evolutionism is false."

... Are you just trying to be funny or something? I think even the Christians are gonna make fun of you for this one- that was pretty lame.

The Hidden bible book that only I can read because I am Beddar than Jesus 6 : 2
Since it says it was pretty lame in the Bible-thus it shalt be lameth like thith here quethtion.

Answer 6

Some of what you say has merits, but I also subscribe to a scientific explaination of God's creation.

God did not wave his hand and make man.

God FASHIONED man out of the dust of the EARTH and blew life into man with a breath. ORGANIC MATTER AND GASES.

God, in the bible, is NOT a magician

He does not wave a magic wand or open a curtain and WHALLA

Further, God has or employs technology.

The Angel who guarded the Tree of Life had a flaming sword.

Why does GOD need a flaming sword to protect the tree of life!

These are BIBLICAL Paradoxes.

We are DRIVEN to take them as facts

We have to ACCEPT things on FACT

GOD either NEEDS or DOES NOT NEED an ANGEL to guard the tree of life with a flaming sword.

Which is the TRUTH

So, if God has to fashion man out of dirt and a breath from his own nostrils and has to have an Angel with a flaming sword, then God uses a METHOLOGY to do things. He's is NOT a Magician pulling things out of thin air.

God did not CREATE everything at ONCE. He did it over a six day period of time.

The process of CREATION, obviously, has limitations.

A Catholic Priest postulated the Big Bang theory, a scientific explanation of HOW God's creation process worked.

Now, if we take what is KNOWN about physics (and as you point out we could be wrong about things or things may not work exactly as we think they do), when the Big Bang occured things were moving at great speeds. AT light and Near light

Time SLOWS, or so we think, at these speeds.

Hence seconds are decades, minutes are milleniums, hours centuries and days eons.

The first day or two could have EASILY taken billions of years in OUR time frame, but only a day in GOD's TIME FRAME (and what does an ETERNAL being need with time, anyway).

NOW the EARTH AND SUN comes on day 4, so the EARTH DAY was not established in DAY 1, 2 or 3

SO it must be some OTHER FORM OF DAY

Now, as the Big Bang progressed mass moved from gas and luminosity to gravity wells and stars and star clusters and galaxies and as mass cools it expands and as it expands mass increases and does friction and drag, hence things SLOW DOWN.

As things slow time, TIME DIALATES

As least so we think based on Einstein.

Day 1, 2, 3 and 4 could be BILLIONS of years long due to high accleration of mass and days 5 and 6 could be shorter due to the slowing down of the universe, which it is.

The SUN does not move as fast as a Quasar nor as fast a gamma radiation.

So between day 2 and 4 we could have a logarithmic slowing and compressoin of time.

By the time we reach day 5 and 6 what WAS taking billons of years now passes in MILLIONS of years due to time dialation relativisticly speaking on the Earth.

The common animals and man come on that last day, with MAN final, just before God Rested, which was the END of the 6th day.

In a time dialtion framework this easily could be 100,000 years of time from the CREATION of ADAM to our current place in time today.

There are lots of Gaps.

Man, such as Adam, live, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700 years by today's standards

We don't know much about the effects of TIME DIALATION, relativistically speaking, BASED on OUR frame of reference in moving space (the Milky way moving, the sun turning in orbit, the sun rotating, the Earth orbiting, the Earth rotating, we are talking great speeds here, but no where NEAR light).

It is, theortically possible to rectify the scientific evolution of the universe with the religious evolution of the universe, but you have to think relativistically without a TRUE point of refrenence.

That catchall comes back to the starting point.

Did GOD order a button pushed to make it work or did it happen accidentially.

That is the main focal point of rhetorical contention in the creating of the universe.

Answer 7

Hahahaha, This is a "new low"...

"1. Scientists cannot measure distances beyond 100 light years accurately. There aren't rulers that big to do that here on Earth. "

You mean creation scientists right?

"Evolutionism"???

What the heck is that!

I have not seen a man like you, who's so dumb, exposes his idiocy with pride.

Hope this question is some kind of joke, otherwise your brain is seriously not working and I advise you to get a hobby.

Answer 8

I am, therefor I am right.

If your church is teaching you this you should have been born in the Dark Ages. Just think, you could of been an Inquisitor.

Have you been totally honest with yourself ? I think not. Do you believe that all Christian teaching is true?

I get such a thrill reading your assumptions. You can't explain something you say God did. OR God works in mysterious ways. If every body believed as you do, we'd never have created so many things. You've got a brain - use it.

Answer 9

1)False. They most certainly can. Please refer to something other than a creationist website full of lies. Check it. That statement is either a deliberate lie,or one from ignorance. You can fix it either way
2)False,yes we know what light is.We have even isolated a single photon. We know light travels the same speed through a vacuum,everywhere. Again,it's easy to find out.Either a deliberate lie,or one from ignorance. You can change either.
3) Total speculation which goes against everything ever seen,measured,tested,observed.

4) Evolutionism(?) Has zilch,zero,nothing,nada with how close stars are,how fast light travels,whether or not the first life form was poofed by god,seeded by aliens,or arose naturally. Please to not willfully lie again. And since you have been informed of the fallacies in your argument,you no longer have ignorance as an excuse

Answer 10

1. It is all a series of calculations that you are sadly unaware of. I ask that you further research how such calculations are made. Start off with the site that I have linked to you.

2. We do not know that God created it. We do have a firm grasp of how fast light moves.

3. The stars were supposedly created a matter of hours *after* the plants..