400 Yard Kill Shot?

Question

Yesterday I went to a friends house with other friends and I took some 400 yard shots at deer targets. Everyone of my 30 shots was a kill shot but the best we could do is only a Minute of Angle with custom .308 loads is their any way to get close to 1/2 MOA with a Savage 12BVSS at 400 yards.

Does anyone on here have any custom recipe for loads on the Savage .308 12BVSS for benchrest and deer hunting.

Answer 1

straight out.................you are talking BS...........one inch at 400 yds.............crap................or else you dont know how to measure distance

Answer 2

Your accuracy could be improved in several ways. As for a custom recipe, they are pretty unique to each gun. Even from one savage to another. You could get better groupings if you move from traditional hunting bullets like pointed soft points or round nose to something with a higher ballistic coefficient. Also the high rate of twist for this gun will allow you to shoot some really heavy bullets. This will help reduce the effects of wind on your groupings. Barnes Bullets makes some great low drag hunting rounds. Your savage could handle 185 grain bullets no problem. They are very flat trajectory and still deliver plenty of energy at 400 yards. Since you are handloading you could also try and seat the bullet further out, closer to the lands of the rifling. This will help by giving you a more uniform powder burn and gas expansion. More consistent velocities means you can predict how the bullet will behave and use that to give you more accuracy. Checking consistency between your brass cases and bullet weights will also help, as will using powder and primers from the same lot number. consistency is the key. Hope this helps, and good luck

Edit: Travis, this guy makes no mention of actual grouping size. Why would you assume he is not shooting 1 MOA; a 4" group at 400 yards. That would still be a kill shot on a deer. Maybe you are the "mall ninja".

Answer 3

Congratulations on some fine shooting. You are, however, wrong. You were NOT shooting MOA. You were shooting SUB MOA. (minute of angle) MOA is a one inch group at 100 yards. 2 inches at 200, 3 inches at 300, and so on.

I'm inclined to call BS on your grouping, as 1" with a .308" bullet is pretty damn good shooting for seasoned competitors. I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying it's highly improbable that you accomplished this, as it's a real milestone, akin to your fist one hole group at 100 yards..

To shoot for groups, you would shoot 5 shot groups, then measure. I'm thinking that what you did is go out and measure the tightest clusters.

As for the load, a custom load is just that; you work up a load that performs well in YOUR rifle. You can talk to other people shooting the same rifle, and get an idea where to start, based on their load.

Generally, you'll start around 10% below their load. Meaning, if they're using, say 30 grains of varget, (this is not a load suggestion, it's just an example) you'd start with 10% less powder, or 3 grains less, then graduate up or down one tenth of a grain at a time. This IS tedious as hell, but it's what works.

Load about 10-15 rounds of each loading, and shoot 3 or 5 shot groups. If you get 1 or 2 shots that are way outside the group, routinely with a certain load, then you start to examine things.
Whenever you shoot, look at your brass. Is there a bunch of black on one side of the brass? You have uneven neck tension. The gases are escaping more out of one side than the other. You can drive yourself NUTS with reloading for accuracy! The top benchrest guys weigh the brass, measure the necks with micrometers to make sure the neck is uniform in thickness. They will also measure how much water will fit the case, to make sure they all have the same inside volume.

Well, this is getting pretty long, so, just visit www.snipercountry.com . I've learned a LOT from those guys. It's probably the largest brain trust in the shooting world. When you go there, check your ego at the door. You don't know squat yet, but you sound like you're on your way. These guys will help. If you go in acting like a wanna be mall ninja, you'll promply get the boot.

Here are links to articles you need to read before asking questions: http://www.snipercountry.com/ammo.htm

Answer 4

1 - fire-form your cases and resize them only in collar with a neck-sizer
2 - use only one-brand cases and make sure they weight all the same
3 - use the case trimmer to make sure they all have the same lenght
4 - use same brand of primers and insert them with the same effort
5 - use good hunting bullets
6 - carefully load the same load of powder (use the scale for each load)
7 - find out the "free-bore zero" of your cartridge, make some essays to make sure they don't exceed in pression (carefully starting from lower loads), maybe u should set a 1mm - 2mm free-bore instead of a zero one;
8 - insert bullets carefully, with three or four movements of the press, rotating a little the case each time - to make sure to insert the bullet axially.

as u see, i didn't modify the flash-holes and i didn't check the axe with a comparator. but with this few rules i always managed to make good shots.
of course u must take out which bullet is the best for your carbine, depending on the rifling: 1/10", 1/12" maybe makes the difference between a 168grs and a 180grs.
i don't want to teach anything, this is just what i usually do.

Answer 5

The real mccoy of hunting and shooting at 400 yards is a world apart from setting at a bench and shooting. For the feel of it lean against a tree or shoot over a fence or prone; with wind blowing in your face and snow pelting you and the sun blinding you, etc. The difference between training and real combat; you have to experience it. Every rifle has a certain load it prefers; you just have to find it by trial and error.

Answer 6

The best recipe is the same as it's always been: "Git as close as ye can, laddie, and then get 10 yards closer." Just hunt better and your shooting, which is fine in the controlled circumstances at least, will take care of itself.

Answer 7

One minute of angle at 400 yards is very good shooting. Finding the best load for your gun may take some time. Each gun is different so each gun may shoot loads differently.

Answer 8

Try using boat tail match grade bullets.....