Why do non-Catholic and Catholic Christians persist in "us vs. them" infighting?

Question

If a dollar was given to charity every time someone brought up here:
Mary! The Pope! Sola scriptura! Those statues! Confession! XYZ denomination isn't Christian! We were here first! We're right and you're wrong!
-- really, I think we'd be able to feed a lot of hungry people, don't you? ("We", because I confess I have participated in this.)

Folks, the "reformation" that brought all of this about was 500 years ago. Right, wrong, or otherwise, it's the reality present-day Christians are living with. I'm not asking for a group hug; disagreement in points of doctrine and practice is inevitable. But in these times how can we justify perpetuating rancor by continuing to nail theses to each other's doors when the world sees us doing this and rightly wonders what's so great about being Christian? How much do you think our witness has suffered because of it?

I'm seeking thoughtful answers, not diatribes, and have no predefined "best" answer in mind.

God's Advocate: I agree, but we will answer to God on an individual basis for what we've done about His message of salvation as it's been made known to us through the Spirit, and not what denomination we belonged to. Someone in a group you would define as non-Christian by doctrine may still BE a Christian individual (and vice versa). Wholesale rejection of an entire sect presupposes that we're able to judge each person's heart. We can point out doctrinal error as we see it all day long, but that judging part is not something I'd want to answer for.

CC: Interesting take, and probably not without a grain of truth in some cases.

Nightserf: Spot on!

Sybil - for all you know my ancestors stood up for yours and abhorred what happened to them. Neither of us really knows. At some point ancestral grudges need to be left where they belong: In the past.

LTF: Fair enough. Guarded respect is sometimes the best we can hope for.

o, john1:1, imacatholic2: Thought-provoking and insightful, all of you. Many thanks.

On further reflection in taking all comments together, I will concede that sybil's and even nuphyllis' points have some merit, in that old prejudices and at times outright hatred handed down from generation to generation are difficult to overcome -- and anyone who studies history knows these play at least some part in this ongoing conflict.

Answer 1

You're 100% right that the in-fighting is a terrible witness to non-believers. I do have to say however that I cannot sit by and not defend my Catholic faith simply to "preserve the peace" or spare someone's feelings. I do know that I must do everything with love, and I also know that the measure of how much I DO love someone can be seen by how much I am willing to tell them the truth.

I used to be protestant. I am now Catholic. It was after a long, soul-searching journey that I discovered the true Faith. If I am to consider myself Christian - Catholic - I must share the Faith, correct errors, and fight lies. Period. This infighting is exactly what you stated - a result of the Reformation 500 years ago. Yes, there are many devout, beautiful non-Catholic Christians who live glowing lives in Christ. I do not and cannot judge their hearts. However, how much more will their lights shine when they have the fullness of faith that can only be found in the Catholic Church. Remember, I'm a convert; I know what it's like on the other side.

The important thing to remember is we must first be immersed in the Faith, in the Spirit, ourselves. We can do nothing to show God's love on our own power. If we are not right with God, how can we expect to be a witness to others of Him? We can't! Devotion to Him and His Church is what will win the day. Jesus told us, "Love one another, as I have loved you." That's our job. That's what it means to be a Christian. We can only do this, however, if we are in Him and of Him.

God bless and take care.

Answer 2

Hi Granny

You are correct. The Reformation was 500 yrs ago and I read somewhere that Luther had some serious qualms about splitting the Church not the least of which was his belief that the split would further splinter into even more denominations. Even so he felt the risk was worth taking. As it turns out he was a visionary in that respect and we are living with the results today. God help us.

Other than the dual magisterial system of the RCC the single most dividing doctrine is the status of Mary. It stems from the title Theotokos meaning literally "God-bearer." It is the title used by the Greek fathers from Origen in the early third century, and some even think it can be traced to Hippolytus who died in A.D. 236. (See F. L. Cross, Dictionary of the Christian Church, Oxford University Press [1957]).

The Trinity had been systematically formulated in 325 at the Council of Nicaea, but debate about exactly what it meant continued and still does. There were also teachings about Christ regarding His Humanity-Divinity; A problem similar to the Trinity. These teaching, Apollinarianism, Nestoriusism, Sabellianism and others arose within the Church and were deemed heretical at later councils.

Nestorius wanted to replace the term Theotokos with Christotokos or "Christ-bearer." As noted this was deem heresy and the term “God-bearer” became Mary’s official title.

I know that was a long dissertation but required to show that the RCC has elevated Mary to essentially equal status with her son.

From the RCC point of view as the relationship between Jesus’ humanity and divinity came to be understood more fully, it became even clearer that Mary, as his human mother, was specially graced by God in order to make her a fitting mother for God the Son—for example, by being specially preserved from sin. This special relationship to God the Son and the accompanying graces made her the highest of created beings. Devotion to her was therefore intertwined with submission and obedience to her Son.

This is where the RCC and Protestants paths part company. While Protestants agree that Mary was indeed the virgin mother of Christ through Immaculate Conception we do not subscribe to her being anything greater. And there is no Scriptural basis that I know of that proclaims Mary “being specially preserved from sin.” Her status as virgin does not automatically ascribe sinlessness, for all men born of woman have inherited and imputed sin. Mary was no different.

What does all this have to do with the question you ask? It points out that there are serious Theological differences among Christian denominations. Moreover, they have developed and are debated polemically within the church. The problems arise when the debate becomes public as can be seen on forums such as YA R&S. And indeed our witnessing has suffered because of this. When this happens people get the message that Christianity is in shambles.

In public forums the debate needs to be much more irenic.

In the final analysis Christianity has far more in common than debates such as these would suggest. The Divinity of Christ, His life, death and resurrection is the core and all denominations that agree to that doctrine are Christian. They are what gives us Salvation; Sanctifies and Justifies us before God. Amen.

Answer 3

Human nature. Anti-Catholic sentiments in the USA were tied to the waves of Irish, Italian and German Catholic immigrants who arrived in the early 19th Century. Before that various Catholic and non-Catholic countries competed for land here before the United States was established. Religion has always been tied to money, power and leading masses of people. The reformation was about not paying Rome and about European Princes wanting complete autonomy from Rome - money, power.. For centuries the Popes fought European Kings over who had the right to appoint Catholic Bishops.

There are 1.1 billion Catholics in the world - so whether people like Catholics or not, Catholicism is here to stay for a very long time.

The Catholic Church has a very strong ecumenism effort including publications:

http://www.usccb.org/seia/

Catholics read Protestant authors and admire Boenhoffer et al. I even know of a Franciscan Priest Theology Professor who specializes in Calvin and admire Calvin. I have Protestant friends who are great people. No biggee..

There are doctrine differences. Catholics believe in faith and works. Catholics also believe that people of other religions can go to heaven. You cited other differences.

Ultimately God will decide who goes to heaven and not people fighting each other over religious differences or preferences. Deus meus et omnia.

Answer 4

Pastor Billy says: To narrow it down to one word, authority. One groups has it and the other does not. Protestantism was founded as a protest against Catholicism hence the coining of the name "Roman Catholic" by it's opponents. You can see from some of the answers the majority of attacks start with the Protestant camp and of course on yahoo answers we have some good Catholic apologists who respond to these attacks, sometimes nicely sometimes not so nicely.

Speaking only for himself I started to realise sometime ago the Protestants were doing all the asking so I created this alias first as a parody of bad Protestant preaching and than to incorporated a question asking style of Protestant pastors with Catholic content and Protestant reflection. If my questions offend they can only offend because they hit too close to home and draw out the similarities between Protestantism and Catholicism and the denials of traditions which Protestants harbour about their own faith. I point out the contradictions and inconsistency within the beliefs of our separated brethren.

Answer 5

I was not raised in a church or indoctrinated to any denomination. I admit, when I first converted in a Charismatic Lutheran church I was unable to find common ground with life-long Catholic friends until I matured in the Word. Keep in mind, until I converted I was into the old hippie trip of whatever trips your trigger and under that banner I had no trouble with Catholics, Baptists or a coven of witches. They were all the same to me. Today,I still hold fast to my beliefs as a Protestant Christian, but as I said on an earlier posting: Better to err on the side of love. We are all striving for Heaven as our eternal home, so I say we are on the same bus. I believe our Father is waiting for His children to get to know one another before He sends for us. I cannot recall of a Protestant running Mother Theresa down, nor of a Catholic running Billy Graham down. Perhaps as we try to be more Christ-like, we can recall these two earthly examples to mind.

Answer 6

In the real world, outside of Yahoo! Answers, there is little in-fighting and a lot of indepth dialogue.

I agree that it would be preferable to remember that this is Yahoo! Answers and not Yahoo! Arguments. This format is not conducive to in-depth heart-to-heart dialogues.

Personally I try (and probably sometimes fail) not to argue but to seriously explain the beliefs of the Catholic Church to what I hope are serious questions.

"The Catholic Church embraces with hope the commitment to ecumenism as a duty of the Christian conscience enlightened by faith and guided by love…Jesus himself, at the hour of his Passion, prayed 'that they may all be one' (John 17:21)." -- Pope John Paul II, Ut Unum Sint, May 25, 1995.

The Catholic Church already has the following open dialogs with her sister Churches:

- The North American Orthodox-Catholic Theological Consultation
- The Joint Committee of Orthodox and Catholic Bishops
- The Oriental Orthodox-Roman Catholic Consultation
- The Polish National Catholic-Roman Catholic Dialogue
- The Anglican-Roman Catholic Consultation USA
- The Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue
- Roman Catholic-Reformed Consultation
- The United Methodist-Catholic Dialogue
- Southern Baptist Convention-Catholic Dialogue
- The Evangelical-Catholic Dialogue
- Faith and Order Commission, National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA
- Consultation with the National Council of Synagogues
- Consultation with the Orthodox Union and the Rabbinical Council of America

Here is the joint declaration of justification by Catholics (1999), Lutherans (1999), and Methodists (2006):

By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us and calling us to good works.

With love in Christ.

Answer 7

I am a non-catholic with catholic friends, and it had taken a very long time for the parents of my catholic friend to accept our friendship. I am now only speaking from my experience.

My CF (catholiec frienda) believes what her church tells her to believe. I believe what I read in the Bible. My Bible tells me that we can not gain salvation by works ("lest any man (or woman) should boast"). I believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ by forgiving of my sins. She believes her sins are forgiven when her priest says "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more". I pray right to the father, and my cfs pray to Mary and other dead people. She hates it when I tell her I am a saint. I am saved by grace. The only tie that Catholics and non catholics have is the beliefe that Christ is the salvation for our sins. Other than that, the non Catholic looks at is as though they pray to people, worship a pope (another person), confess sins to a priest, and so on. In a nutshell, I think that that non catholics have opened the eyes as to how simple and loving God really is, while the Catholics have managed to keep ahold of spirituality and reverance in church. I think there will always be a disagreement here. According to my CFs, non catholics need to learn to give respect and reverence where it is due, and I feel that my Bible warns me against Idol worship and the worship of other people. The dead can not hear me pray and they can not pray for me. We are still friends, and we disagree. We will always be friends, but I will not be able to share that special tie of Christianity with her because she believes she is better than me in that respect, and I think she is wrong.

Answer 8

It seems to be human nature to choose up sides and take potshots, both literally and figuratively, over issues of all sorts: Conservative/Liberal, Theist/Atheist, Catholic/Protestant, Shi'a/Sunni, the list goes on and on.

It's amazingly important to most people to be right, and very few want to engage in any real investigation and analysis of the issues that separate them from their antagonists, especially if there is any risk of changing their views on any subject.

When our cognitive abilities are engaged only in service of our passions, we become fanatics and cannot be reasoned with. This is what you are trying to deal with. I wish you luck!

Answer 9

to easily answer your question i might say the biggest concern between the Catholicism and the different denominational and non-denominational church homes is The Eucharist, The physique and Blood of Christ shared interior the communion. all the different stuff that human beings talk approximately are so minor and maximum the creations of what human beings prefer to translate them to. If the Eucharistic ameliorations did no longer exist you could call something in basic terms politics type to declare. whilst all of them declare the final for the rustic each and every occasion issues their way is extra useful.

Answer 10

Well it is a little hard to completely trust a group that murdered some of your ancestors. Yes the Reformation was 500 years ago (approximately) but it is a wonder my family continued at all, having to flee France at night, for their lives. But I married a Catholic, when I was younger, and it did not work out at all! So I live beside them and I don't actively dislike them but I am not trusting either.