Serious boxing fans- Why isnt Marvelous Marvin Hagler considered the greatest ever?

Question

.Dominated middleweight division for over 13 years.
.Fought and beat all comers in a division that is arguably one of the greatest of all time( Duran, Hearns, Mugabi, Antuofermo) Got a raw deal against Ray Leonard.
.Stylistically the best - strongest chin, never knocked down, agressive style, always coming 4ward, southpaw or traditional.
He would destroy any of these guys now - Mayweather, Hopkins, De la Hoya, Jermain Taylor
. Never had a down period in his career like Ali, Leonard, Hearns, etc.

Answer 1

He is not considered the greatest ever because of a man called Sugar Ry Robinson, whom I believe to be to greatest Middleweight of all time. That, and the fact that he never got the credit he deserved until he retired from boxing.

However, I would still have Hagler as one of the Top 3 Middleweights ever. Here is where I would rank him:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Marvellous Marvin Hagler
3. Carlos Monzon

Also...to anyone who believes the media hype of certain magazines (most notably RING), Bernard Hopkins IS NOT the greatest Middleweight of all time. He may have made the most Middleweight title defences ever, but he was also mastered by Roy Jones Jr at Middle, and reportedly ducked James Toney. Anyone who disagrees with this, I challenge you to compare his quality of opposition as Middleweight champ to that of Robinson, Hagler and Monzon. In fact when someone once asked renowned Philly promoter Russel Peltz whether Hopkins would have beaten Hagler, Peltz reportedly laughed at the guy who asked to question, and said something to the effect of: "Hopkins? Beat Hagler? Hopkins wouldn't have even beaten Briscoe."

Rap group Public Enemy have a song titled: "Don't believe the hype." When it comes to Hopkins' run as Middleweight champion, you will do well to heed the advice of the title of the aforementioned Public Enemy rap. Because I'm not fooled by the hype surrounding Hopkins for a second.

Answer 2

Marciano and Lewis are the greatest ever? Dude, what are you smoking? And Ali sucks? Goodness, what is the world coming to. Sorry, that other guy is really on drugs or something.

Anyway, to answer your question, Hagler was certainly a hall of famer, but I would not consider him the greatest even at Middleweight. I honestly think that Sugar Ray Robinson would have beaten him.

Like I said , I don't think that he is the best middleweight in history, obviously not even the best p4p in any weight class. Roberto Duran was a greater light weight and the proof in the pudding is that even at an old age and 20 lbs heavier he still held his own with Marvin.

Hagler's greatest fights were against greater fighters in lower weight classes. The lightweight Duran held his own, Hearns gave him the greatest three rounds in the history of the sport and Leonard beat him. All came up in weight to face him.

What is your definition of "the greatest"? Ali was, by far, the greatest boxer who transcended the sport (in another weight class). Robinson had the most overall skills. Title defenses? Hopkins actually holds the record which formerly belonged to Carlos Monzon, arguably the greatest middleweight champion.

In closing he would destroy Mayweather and Oscar,(who were smaller), Jermaine Taylor (Who I feel is overrated), but I do not agree that he would "destroy" Hopkins. I simply think he would beat him by unanimous decision.

Answer 3

What are you talking about? Hagler is always either #1 or #2 all time middleweight. The case can be made that he never lost a fight, tho he did lose to Sugar Ray fair and square. I get sick of Hagler apologists crying about the decision when Hagler clearly gave away the first 4 rounds. Leonard only needed to win 3 of the last 8 to seal the deal.

And Juan Roldan did knock Hagler down. And in his earlier years he was a technical boxer, not so aggressive, not always coming forward. He only got super-aggressive later on in his career, and started eating right hand leads which is how he gave rounds away against SRL.

Answer 4

Personal opinion. He was one of the best middleweights, ever.
Hagler was a natural middleweight, Duran was a natural lightweight fighting at middleweight, when he fought Hagler. To be considered 'the best' you need Angelo Dundee. He never let ethics get in the way of his bottom line, and he never minded paying for publicity. He didn't like paying for a win, unless he had to. Ray Leonard was a product of Dundee. Had Hagler been fighting for Dundee when he fought Duran, he could have made Duran quit, the way he did against Leonard. But I do agree that he, Marvin Hagler, was amongst the VERY BEST.

Answer 5

Rock on goododie! I absolutely agree with what you said (although some of your facts are slightly off). I probably wouldn't hate Ali so much if the official record said, Norton 3, Ali 0 like it should. But when Don King was running the whole show, the outcome was determined BEFORE the fight, which brings us back to Hagler. He was easily in the top 3 MW's in history ( Could be #1). I do believe the all-out wars with Hearns and especially Mugabi took a little out of him but he still beat Leonard - no doubt about that! I actually predicted Leonard would win (on the scorecards) because like ALI, he was the 'money man' and they weren't bringing him back out for nothing. Hagler retired because of that decision against him - he KNEW it was rigged! He just said, "F**k this Sh*t!" Hagler was a great warrior, boxer, and champion - he will always be remembered.

Answer 6

It depends on your criteria for "greatest ever". In terms of who-beats-who, you could make a case for Hagler being the greatest middleweight ever. The only ones I see POSSIBLY beating a prime Hagler are Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon and Marcel Cerdan. But I wouldn't bet on it.

If your criteria is his resume and quality of opposition, which is my main criterion, then you don't really have a case at all. Harry Greb fought and beat so many more great middleweights and light heavyweights and he did it 3, 4 and 5 times apiece. Ray Robinson's resume is littered with hall of famers, too.

If you meant Hags should be considered greatest p4p fighter ever then all I can suggest is that you look deeply into the ring careers of men like Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Harry Greb, Ray Robinson, Roberto Duran, Henry Armstrong and Sam Langford. Hagler's achievements pale in comparison to these men as well as many others I can name.

Just for the record, I am a HUGE Marvin Hagler fan. I watched his career closely and there is no fighter in history who I would root for in a dream match against him. But I have to be honest here.

Answer 7

No doubt about it - he's one of the all-time great middleweights. I think if he had clearly beaten Leonard, his legacy would have been absolutely secured. That was an odd fight, where Leonard sort of ran away most of the night and the scoring came down to personal preference about styles. However, I thought at the time that Leonard probably had a small edge. Hagler's sudden exit from the scene also was a little odd; he probably had more to give.

Clearly a Hall of Famer though.

Answer 8

Goododie, you're the biggest idiot ever. Your post was pure trash.

Ands sorry to the threadstarter, he wasn't the greatest ever because there were simply greater fighters. I'm not taking away what you said, but there were simply fighters who did more and were better. Ali IS one of them. Ali faced far better competition for his weight class than Hagler did. The best fighter he beat was Hearns, a former WW. He lost to SRL, no matter what you guys say, he got outboxed, period. He was great, I rank him #3 at MW, #16 on my P4P list. He is arguably the best MW ever(not quite for me) and arguably the best southpaw ever(I have Whitaker above him) but surely not the greatest.

Answer 9

Marvin Hagler is certainly pound for pound one of the all time greats. And as a middleweight he may well be the best of all time. He was truly marvelous.

Answer 10

No doubt that Marvellous Marvin is one of the top 3 middleweights ever. he wouldn't have beaten Robinson, as for Monzon-that's a tough one.