To those who believe in Western religions: Why do so few of you confront the question at hand?

Question

I'm tired of people saying that atheists/agnostics don't believe in God because they want to avoid responsibility/are afraid. (Maybe some of us do, but most of us don't. We just don't have proof.)

I'm tired of people saying we aren't confident in our understanding, using our constant arguing as evidence. (Your religions influence society and government greatly; thus, they influence us. We also don't like to see ignorance at work.)

I'm tired of people responding to criticisms by criticizing the other side. (This more than anything shows that you don't want to think about what is being asked of you. If you respond and THEN give a criticism, that's fine and fair. However, you mostly just make the opposite claim and ask us how we prove that.)

What does ANY of this accomplish except self-deception? You go on, deciding the truth for everyone else as if YOU have the authority to do so. I'm tired of questions with no answers because of senseless bickering.

When we say we need PROOF to believe, YOU'RE the ones who have to prove your faith. What is there for us to defend? We don't believe because we lack evidence. Simple as that.

And yeah, I know that many atheists do the same right back to you, but as I said, you're the ones who have to defend. Atheists deny the possibility of a God unless they're agnostics, so I also want proof of that. But I'm on the side of agnostics, so just answer this for me.

For anyone who says we're all free to believe what we want, you're right. But that's not what I'm getting at. If that's all you're going to say in response, then don't bother. I'm not expecting anyone to "convert," but I AM talking to those who would point out my ignorance or try to convert ME.

The question at hand refers to any criticism of Christianity or honest question from someone who is doubting. It's general, not specific.

I'll say it AGAIN. I don't tell people that no form of God can exist. All I say is that it's uncertain. I'm not making an argument against God by any means.

And yes, I do need a nap.

I wouldn't have to post so many more additional details if people would read everything. I know it's kind of a lot, but come on.

One more time: I'm not talking to those who don't try to come after us. You deserve a lot more respect than those who do.

As for having to experience it to know it, that can be said for any number of things, including other religions. Maybe there's something to that, maybe not. However, I don't really want this to be a Western Religion vs. Atheism/Agnosticism discussion. I just want people, even if only a few, to see the ignorance in their responses and re-think things.

The people I'm calling ignorant, at least in this particular "question," are those who make the statements I listed at the beginning. Don't make any assumptions about me.

Ah, finally. hisgloryisgreat, you did it. Congratulations. YOU DID EXACTLY WHAT I POINTED OUT.

Am I angry? You better believe I am.

In almost every case, I read through each answer before giving my own in order to decide if my response is even worth it. You say there is a true answer from the Bible for everything. If that were true, the Bible would be much, much longer. Furthermore, you're basing the "truth" of the Bible on the fact that the Bible says it's true.

It seems I can't help but digress. My apologies to the mature readers. I do NOT avoid my responsibilities, not by a long shot. How can you say that about me? Do you know me? Not at ALL. This may blow your mind, but there are non-Christians out there who do take responsibility for their actions! Wow! To think - those worthless heathen scum could do something right!

Foxfire - I don't know if you're even around to read this anymore, but that's all right. First of all, I didn't post this question to request proof of God's existence, though I went into that when others began. The purpose of it was to point out some ignorant statements people make (the first three paragraphs).

Now to actually respond. I don't claim to have the answer and I never said I accepted the Big Bang. It also seems like a lot of scientists are rejecting this, but I'll address it anyway.

You are making quite an assumption yourself. You are telling me that there are only two choices: Big Bang or God. If the Big Bang doesn't make sense, then God must be the answer. But wait a moment - from a scientific perspective, God doesn't make sense, either. So we're left with nothing. Obviously that's not satisfactory, nor is it true. We just don't know what the answer is yet, as is true in many areas of science. Maybe we'll know in 100 years. Who knows?

Before I choose the best answer, I want to respond to the one who said I'm in the minority concerning displeasure with religion's influence on government. I'd like to see the proof for that, but let's just pretend it's true. It doesn't even matter. In any government, the people in power need to have responsibility. Presumably, the power of the United States is its people, so everyone needs to have responsibility. This includes justification of forcing rules upon everyone else just because you like to believe in them. But perhaps someone like you doesn't know what responsibility is.

Answer 1

I beg you to read all of this because I mean every single word.

Can I be completely honest with you? I'm a Christian and I totally agree with you. (Not that Christians [or any religion] and atheists can't agree. They just don't seem to like to on here.) I find it hard to answer some questions on either side because they are very critical and very judgmental. I try not to be that way. If anyone finds me to answer that way, please, please, please email me and tell me.

To be honest, it bugs me when I see Christians respond to the atheist question "How do you know God exists?" with "How do you know He doesn't exist?" I used to do the same thing, but I realized it wasn't getting anywhere so I quit. We Christians are good for turning non-ones away with our responses sometimes. That's our faults. We tend to be rude, judgmental, critical, and evasive, among other things. They'd hate me for saying this, but it's so true. I am at fault as well.

If we truly followed the words of our Lord, we wouldn't be the way we are. Never in the Bible did Jesus evade a question or be judgmental of those who didn't believe. He said what He needed to say. In doing that, he gave people a choice which I think we fail to do. We preach hellfire and then expect you to immediately fall on your knees and repent. That's not right. All we were commanded to do was go out and spread the Gospel, it's your choice from there.

I have issues with the atheist side as well, not for their disbelief, but for their responses too. I think they can be judgmental as well, but I'm a Christian and I think I should confront my side first.

Last thing, sometimes I don't know if Christians even believe God exists sometimes. We tell you we do because that's the "Christian" thing to do. We'd look bad otherwise, but when problems arise, suddenly we don't have the faith we claim to have when we're answering questions so adamantly. Suddenly God can't do all we claim He can do when things are good. Once again, we should wholeheartedly have faith, but stick around a Christian for a couple months. You'll see.

I'm not saying we're all this way. Some are truly the way God desires. Forgive those who have annoyed you. On behalf of all of them, I'm sorry.

Answer 2

I have never understood why people like to argue to those without faith, just as those that do not believe like to intimidate those who believe. Are we not ALL "adults" that we need not be treated like children by those who think they live on pedestal of superiority? Whether one believes or doesn't isn't and has never been the issue upon this planet, what HAS BEEN the issue is the fact that as a species we always seem to come up with conflicting ideologies and premises which put us at each others throats. It has been that way since the beginning and recorded throughout history. So what does that say about the human race? It SAYS we are a VIRUS much like an INFECTION and as long as we LIVE we are never content nomatter what the reason be. The only ones that have PEACE upon this planet are the DEAD ones and it is not about to CHANGE..........

Answer 3

I agree with you that there is just bickering and insulting on both parties, but then I wonder why you insult in your question. Why do you call those who believe in God ignorant. You can't prove faith, by definition faith is believing in something that can't be proven. I believe because I see evidence. I pray, and I see results. When you talk about not wanting the government to be influenced by faith I say that you are in the minority. Part of being in a democratic society is doing what a majority wants. That is why we vote. If there was truly a desire for seperation of church and state the way the ACLU defines it, that is how the country would vote. But since the majority of Americans understand the seperation of church and state does not mean the absence of god in politics, it means that the government should not be allowed to force you to practice a certain religion. I think a lot could be compromised on if people started talking to eachother. I am also sick of the bickering and yelling of both sides. What ever happened to sitting down and discussing points of views. But to answer the question I think you are answering is, I can't prove to you that god exists, you have to decide that for yourself. The answers are there if you want to explore them. I only ask that you explore them with an open mind, who knows you may just find what you have been looking for. A final thought, I can't see the wind, but I can see the effects of the wind. There is a mystery to it.

If your question is why do some christians call people who don't believe in god ignorant, I don't really have an answer. It seems that they are truly lacking in faith. I certainly don't think anyone who is searching for the truth is ignorant, but those who refuse to search I would call them scared. Scared to find out what they really don't want to be true, or if they are not scared maybe they have been so turned of by Christian hypocrites that there is no way they would want to believe in what they hypocrites believed in. Most people who come back with insults to questions do so because they don't have the answer, and that scares them.

Answer 4

You say we "mostly just make the opposite claim and ask us how we prove that." How is that you can make a statement like that? Is it because that is all you see while you skim over the responses that are given, ignoring the ones that make you feel like you are avoiding your responsibilities? There is a true answer from a bible believing Christian for almost every question that atheists and Atheists ask. Is there something more that you require in the way of our shouldering the burden of proof?

Answer 5

You said we needed to provide proof of God's existence? Let me pose a puzzle to you, and see if you can answer it. Then take a hard look at the evidence provided by the puzzle.

The "Big Bang" has pretty much accepted by the scientific community as the origin of the universe, in which a unbelievably hot, incredibly dense ball of superheated plasma exploded with incredible violence.

As the plasma slowly expanded and cooled, the familiar atomic components (such as quarks, gluons, bosons, electrons, protons, neutrons) began to form. Over time, tiny imperfections in the homogenous plasma cloud began to form clumps as gravity began working on the particles, causing them to condense into stars, galaxies, and nebulas that we see in the present universe.

Now the big riddle.

The laws of physics state that an object in a stable state will remain in that state unless an energy transfer (called work) is performed on the system.

The present universe is expanding at a rate that indicates that it will continue to expand forever, meaning that the energy output of the "Big Bang" was so great that it overcame it's own gravitation.

This brings up two serious questions.

The laws of physics state that for the plasma to have become the tiny ball that it was originally, it must have been in a stable state in which the outward force of radiant energy equaled the inward pull of gravity.

But the ball exploded in a violence that caused it to overcome it's own gravity and explode with such violence that gravity will never slow it down enough to contract back into the original ball. The only way that could happen is if something or Someone added energy to the stable system.

Either that, or something or Someone compressed the ball even further, again adding energy to the system, then released it suddenly, causing it to explode in the Big Bang.

Which is it?

Scientists are frantically trying to find enough matter in the universe to show that the universe will someday stop expanding and will eventually contract again. They are looking for a balanced system.

But all indications are showing that there isn't enough matter in the universe to stop the expansion, showing that something or Someone outside of the present universe performed work on the ball of plasma, for unless energy had been added to the original system, the universe would be balanced, in that gravitation would eventually cause it to stop expanding.

So, who else could have performed such work on the original plasma ball, except Someone outside of the present Universe, meaning God? And more and more astrophysicists are reluctantly admitting that an Intelligence guided the formation of the Universe, an Intelligence with an incredible grasp of physics and mathematics.

You want proof of God's existence? Consider the ball of plasma. When the Big Bang happened, that was the ultimate in chaos. Yet an incredible magnitude of order exists in the universe today, and as any physicist or mathematician worth their degree will tell you, order does not naturally come out of chaos, work must be performed to bring order to chaos.

The problems with atheists is that they demand proof, yet reject any proof presented to them. Will you be one of them?

Answer 6

As they floated through outerspace, an astronaut stated "We have made it to space and I don't see God anywhere".

All that astronaut had to do was open up the door of that capsule and he would have met God face to face.

God loves you. But He is not a respector of persons. He requires of you the same as He requires of me. What I mean is, is that it takes faith to see God. Thats just the way it is. I think if I was having a hard time believing that He existed I would be concerned to the point of searching myself to see whats wrong with me. Because it's you, it's not Him thats got the problem.

Answer 7

And you know what the most ironice part is? Jesus was a pretty accepting dude. He'd roll over on his cross if he knew what Christians were saying on his behalf

Answer 8

I can't do anything to prove that God exists. You need to seek him for yourself. What is your question, I'll try to answer it to the best of my ability, but it's not my job to convince you.

Answer 9

I have faith
I believe because I've felt the love of the Lord buring in my heart
I don't want to bother u I just want to give u the chance to know what I believe in u don't have to change
put a friend in front of u close ur eyes u can't see them but u know their there

Answer 10

okay, i read your post several times, and i don't think I'm quite sure what it is you're asking for! you mentioned the "question at hand". all i can make out is what you're "tired of".

it doesn't bother me, offend me, or worry me that you criticise christianity. if you don't want to hear objections from christians to atheism, i think you're in the wrong area of YA.