So I'm confused....when asked a question about the brutality of the old testament god....?

Question

y'know, the one who ordered or condoned murder, genocide, infanticide, rape, torture, etc, many christians come back with "Well Jesus came and changed everything and now it's not like that". But isn't Jesus god? Is he the same god who did all these nasty things? Is he a different god? If he's a different god, then are there 2 gods? So there actually isn't "one true god"?

Come on, either god and Jesus are the same thing meaning Jesus is responsible for the bloodshed, or there are 2 distinct gods...one's cruel and one's a preacher.

So which is it?

Yes, I have read the book. It's quite clear about all the brutality. Hard to miss really.

Answer 1

Great conundrum.
The answer you say you're given is a great example of Christian supercessionism...your question is evidence that supercessionism doesn't make sense!
You're right. It is impossible to have it both ways. Either God is a cruel bastard throughout the Bible or there are two Gods.... Unless you give a completely different answer......

Let's, just for kicks, keep God as a comprehensive unity (I know, I know, that ruins the whole trinity thing, but let's just try it) and insist that God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow -- OT and NT included. What, then, would be the answer to your question? Perhaps, as was posited by many a Heretic before me, Jesus was God's final answer ... a God that matured or a God that realized such brutal tactics really weren't getting the desired response. Perhaps, as is posited by many a contemporary Heretic, the difference between the actions of God in the OT and the actions of God in the NT are due to the social conditions of the eras - God responds one way pre-Empire, another way to the Empire. Perhaps, and maybe some future heretics will figure this out, the incarnation itself was God's own way of instituting God's own Empire. Either way, we see the issue here is not of God's entity but of God's actions. The God that acted in Jesus (and, again, enough of this fuzzy Trinitarian logic; Jesus was an incarnation, fully God , yes, AND fully human. The human part was limited, at least, by time and that man wasn't in the OT) acted in the brutalities of the OT as well.
That at least deals with the issue of supercessionism and winks at a Trinity (albeit limited to the first two persons) that isn't illogical.

Answer 2

There were many laws that were directed at the nation of Israel specifically. I don't know where you got some of the things you listed, but I suspect that many don't exist in the Bible, and others are taken out of context. Judging from the question, you do not really have either a knowledge or an understanding of the Bible. Maybe you should take another look at that Bible. The Law is still intact, but it must be seen in its proper context.

Answer 3

Clear the confusion with a simple chant from the Hare Ksrna people, the Om padme hummm of the Bhuddists or watch a porn movie and see where exclusivity in religious dogma has led the unsuspecting. Am probably no help here as I accept sensible Q&A's from everyone not blocked as a bigot, racist or nincompoop. Read some of the questions posted by other religions than the one in which you were raised on R&S. I've had worthy encounters with ath/ags as well as Catholic schoolgirls and am hardly on my way to Hell for considering they were just as smart or smarter than I am. I can't prove there is or isn't "one true god" as frankly I am a polytheist and will read from the Bhagavad Gita, the Q'uran or the Talmud just to keep from choking on someone else's ignorance other than my own. LOL....I'm a Pagan polytheist and still believe I am sane despite the fact I gave up Catholicism and it was probably Odin who kept the thunderbolts from my house.

Answer 4

good question...

let's see... in the OT God was pleased when Phineas drove a spear through an Israelite and a Moabite for shagging, and that was the only thing that stopped God's plague.

God struck one of the carriers of the Arc of the Covenant dead because he tried to stop the arc from falling over when the donkey carrying the arc tripped

The highest of high priests (Levi's?) who were allowed into the temple had ropes tied around their waists so that they can be dragged out in the even that God struck them dead for sweating. People who were unworthy could not go in and retrieve the corpse.

There were several incidents where the Israelites were told to go into a particular city and slaughter every living man, woman, child, animal. If I remember correctly, King Saul lost his favour with God because he spared the best cattle and some of the women to use as slaves rather than obey God and kill them all.

Flip to the NT, you have Jesus saying a smouldering reed he will not snuff out, and he spared the prostitute from being stoned even though the law required that she was supposed to be executed. He hung out with and befriended 'sinners'.

Not sure how the two coincide...

Answer 5

They are the one and the same, and I am not ashamed in the least bit about the Old Testament. The OT shows God's holiness, purity, justice,wrath, and our need for a savior. The NT show God's forgiveness and mercy by being our savior. He is the Alpha and Omega. We humans have a hard time wrapping our minds around a just God and a loving God. He is Truth and he is Love. As for rape and infanticide where in the bible does it condone these things? You really need to study scripture before you go spouting these things off like it's truth.

Answer 6

Jesus is simultaneously one with and different from God. He is not God, he is the Son of God as are we all, but he was a self realized soul, meaning he had full realization of His creator within. That is the Trinity in actuality. Father, Son and holy ghost is God situated within the heart of all living beings. God is within all living beings, but we are covered by the veils of Maya (illusion ) so we can act out our material desires. After many lifetimes when the soul becomes frustrated and board with material existence he begins searching for the way out of this miserable condition. When he becomes sincere in seeking the Absolute truth then God also known as Krishna, Allah, Jehovah, Vishnu, etc.) reveals to him how to come home. The old testament is all misconstrued by unscrupulous men who wanted to control the citizens. God didn't advocate all of that, nor did Jesus. Jesus taught nonviolence, to turn the other cheek. Not this terrible fanaticism that so called christians have been violently acting out. We are all eternal spirit souls, part and parcel of the Supreme soul named above. We have all of the qualities of God (when we are purified) but not in the same quantity. Like a drop of water has all the elements of the ocean, but never becomes the great ocean. God is great we are small. If we can accept these simple truths we can begin to become realized ourselves. For info on this topic and how to become self realized go to harekrishnatemple.com Read Bhagavad Gita As it is By Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada- completely enlivening. For the original new Testament before king Constantine changed so many things google gospelofthenazirenes.com The real Jesus (Yesuah)

Answer 7

people that teach that the OT God and NT God are different or that Jesus came and did away with the OT are not reading their Bible.
We think often think of things only as it applies to our lives here on earth , when in reality, this time is but a wisp as compared to eternity. I cannot claim to understand everything but I know this, God is a just God- He created everything and He created order.
The penalty for sin is death, the OT is a picture of that. God allowed men to suffer the penalty for their sins - it is painful, it seems harsh but the fact is that God cannot abide in the presence of sin so He showed us in no uncertain terms the seriousness and severity of stepping outside of His order. The fact is, though, in the scope of eternity, only God knows the fates of their souls after their mortal bodies perished, we can not judge or make assumption on that. This earth isdegenerating, decaying and dying and in the end we will all perish one way or anotherso the physical death that we so like to focus on is not what is important. With disobedience comes pain and death-period and that was something that God made clear to all the earth before Jesus.
Jesus did not take away the law nor did He change the penalty for sin. The law is God's order, His instruction for living a set apart and sanctified life- the penalty for sin, stepping outside of God's order is still death- what Jesus did was take that death upon Himself- in His perfection- he paid the price, the penalty for all sin, that those that follow Him and dwell in Him will not have to suffer the penalty because it is already paid through Jesus. He still says, if oyu love me , you will obey my commands. The way that Jesus taught us to live, eat, work, etc. is still valid and inportant to live a blessed life, but eternal salvation comes by accepting that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins and their is nothing we could do to earn it or pay it back. The God of The OT and NT are the same, nothing changed- He just showed how to balance law and grace- you cannot have one without the other. There is nothing new in the NT- all of the principles, laws, teachings etc can all be found in the OT.

Answer 8

There is only one God. There is also the Holy Trinity (if your Catholic) meaning Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but still all three are in ONE. In the Old Testament, there were harsher punishments because the gates of Heaven were not yet open and forgiveness wasn't set in. We must also remember that God doesn't punish and all bad things we bring upon ourselves if you really look at it. Like Noah's ark, the world had turned evil and filled with cruelty leaving God with no other choice but to save the righteous which was Noah therefore the people of the world had brought the flood upon themselves. God didn't bring rape, murder, sickness, torture, etc. into the world we did since the beginning of time in the Garden of Eden when sin entered the world. That's why the world is nothing compared to Heaven and that's why Jesus was sent to die for us that we may have a chance at salvation.

Answer 9

Jesus would indeed have to be responsible for the horrors of the old testament if he is God. There is no getting around that if you believe in the trinity.


And Sylvia G, I would have to assume that you have never read the Old Testament. Rape, torture and infanticide are clearly there and clearly condoned by god.

Answer 10

The Old Testament uses types and symbols to teach about the holiness and purity and sinlessness of God. That is why God wiped out sinful nations. The New Testament, with Jesus in the flesh, emphasizes the kindness and forgiveness of God. Each Testament focuses on different character qualities of the same God.