Could we kill two birds with one stone by restarting the draft for illegal aliens?

Question

Since the draft was targeted for specific genders and age groups in the past, is it really that far of a step to target a social classification?
Would it be fair to offer citizenship to any illegal alien who served a full term honorably?
Would we see illegal aliens running south?

Noam, Drafting wasn't all that absurd 65 years ago. And is it any more absurd now than granting amnesty to people who have broken the law simply because it is politically expedient? I think not.

Zapata. An excellent answer. I tend to agree about getting to the root of the problem. Who mentioned any races? Perhaps a little introspection on your part is in order?

Sheiking Panda.
I also agree that our military is composed of "intelligent, dedicated, highly trained specialists. I would welcome smart, patriotic citizens of any race to apply to the military". Are you saying that immigrants can't be trained. Most of our recruits are fresh out of high school with an HS education (which in this country isn't saying much). I have found that immigrants tend to be more patriotic than most natural born citizens.
The question was not meant to be offensive, but to pose an idea for resolving two modern issues. As an honorably discharged veteran of the cold war, I can safely say that those I served with would not be offended. Perhaps times have changed. Then again maybe not. Perhaps you just have an axe to grind?

Michelle
Ever been to Ft. Buchannan in Puerto Rico? Quite a few people there are bilingual and some barely speak English at all.
Cudo's to your fiance. Still service is found on all levels and helps many people in different ways. There is no faster way to learn a language than total immersion.
These people want to be Americans so much that they are willing to break laws and risk a lot. If the politicians are so dead set on amnesty, why not get something in return and at the same time allow the aliens to contribute and earn legal status?

Yin,
The first part of your response sounds familiar....where did I hear that before? Gays? Blacks? Do you really want to go there?
As for the second part. Would you say forcing a country to take care of people who are there illegally is ethically right? Providing healthcare, education, social services, etc for people who pay no taxes, contribute nothing is ethically right?
The purpose of this question is simply to explore a possible way to get some compensation for supporting these people and also to give them a chance to earn a right to stay.

Michelle,
Thank you for your input. You raised some valid points. Let us say rather than a draft that we use a pseudo-draft. After all we are giving them a choice.
And instead of citizenship, a full 4 year service commitment gains them nothing more than the right to remain in the US as a legal alien. They still have to go through the process to citizenship.
That may be easier to swallow.

Lili raised some good arguements as well.

Answer 1

Gotta give you a star for that one. I think it's a great idea. They can earn money to get their families legal and help defend this country in the process.

Answer 2

My fiance is a Marine with an air-wing, the military has a fairly high standard for enlistment, people seem to think its easy to join the military but you have to be a sharp cookie with extreme dedication and willing to put all other things aside to serve your country.

I am pretty sure speaking proficient English is one of the standards that you must meet in order to enlist, after all would you want the guy guarding your back to have problems communicating basic commands? Like the post above me, the military is made up of very intelligent, highly motivated honorable men and women and that should not be forced, enlistment is voluntary for a reason, in fact if more of the civilian Americans were as dedicated as the men and women of the military this would be a much better country...

You may want to get their opinion before you drop this mess in their lap, they are having it hard enough as is.

Answer 3

Our military is made up of intelligent, dedicated, highly trained specialists. I would welcome smart, patriotic citizens of any race to apply to the military, but it is not a job for unskilled people who have no interest in defending America.

I find your question offensive to those in the military.

EDIT: You ask in your question about drafting illegal aliens. In your edit you say "immigrants" are more patriotic than Americans. I guess my question is: are illegal aliens more patriotic to America than Americans? Do you know the difference between an illegal alien and an immigrant? From your question, I'm not sure you do. I assure you that the difference is tremendous.

Of course immigrants can be "trained" in our military. That's why I mentioned "any race."

Answer 4

Definitely will not work. We can not have just anybody representing the best Army in the world. You need to get rid of illegal aliens you need to start boycotting all those employers that hires them and be ready to pay the right price for those products that get picked by illegal immigrants. And how about getting all those Americans off the unemployment and get them to go and work those fields. Got to get to the core of the problem and not just blurt out your racist feelings.

Answer 5

no. serving in the military is a privilege, illegals don't have the RIGHT to serve in the military as much as they don't have the RIGHT to work in the US. Moreover, forcing people to fight for a country which they don't belong is ethically questionable.

Answer 6

No. Drafting a specific segment of the population is absurd. And why so violent? Why kill birds?

Cannot we "catch two birds with one net" instead?

Answer 7

I would have to disagree.

A record number of immigrants are becoming U.S. citizens by serving in the military. Some are granted citizenship after they are killed in battle. But most survive the perils of war and soon pledge allegiance to the red, white and blue.

Did you know that Hispanics out number other ethnic groups in the military.

I found an article that was in the New York Times. I found it interesting.

"Soldiers, but not citizens: for the thousands of Mexicans in the U.S. military, serving can be a fast track to citizenship—if they survive" Sept 5, 2005 by James C. McKinley, Jr.


The shrine in the corner would be familiar to many American military families. The flag is folded neatly in a triangle, encased in wood and glass. A couple of medals lie in boxes. A stern young man in his United States Army dress uniform peers out from a small photograph. His dog tags hang beside the photo. These are the relics of a life cut short in the name of honor, liberty, and country.

What seems odd is that the mementos are not in a living room in New Jersey or Nebraska, but in a house with concrete floors in a dusty town in central Mexico. And the soldier, Private First Class Jesus Fonseca, 19, was not an American citizen, but one of at least 25 Mexican citizens who have died fighting for the U.S. in two years of war.

bout 28,000 permanent resident aliens were in the U.S. armed forces as of April--3,485 of them from Mexico. The Mexicans are the largest group among the 79 immigrants who have been killed in Iraq, the Pentagon says.

These numbers point to Mexico's ambivalent yet deeply intertwined relationship with the United States. Since 2000, more than 2.4 million Mexicans have migrated to the U.S. seeking jobs and a better life. Some of them, and now their children, are willing to fight and die for their new country.

For many, service in the armed forces is seen as a fast track to citizenship. During wartime, citizenship is all but guaranteed for foreigners who serve honorably in the American military, immigration officials say. In a cruel twist, soldiers like Fonseca, who died in Iraq on January 17 after taking a sniper's bullet in Ramadi, are accorded citizenship after death.

WO WORLDS

Like Fonseca, most Mexicans in the armed forces straddle two worlds. Some join for the usual reasons: a desire for adventure, love for their adopted country, escaping poverty, a subsidized education, and the urge to prove themselves.

"The recruitment system really goes after the Hispanic community," says Fernando Suarez del Solar, whose son, Jesus, joined the Marines just out of high school. "A lot of Hispanics are born in Mexico but live in the United States and don't have citizenship. They see a good option in the Army to get papers, to get citizenship more quickly, and one thing the recruiters say often is that military service will make it easier for them to become accepted in society."

Jesus, 20, a lance corporal, was killed in March 2003 near Nasiriya, in the initial offensive in Iraq. He left behind a wife and infant son in Escondido, Calif.

For some, citizenship is less important than economic opportunity. Sergio Diaz Sr. says his son, Specialist Sergio Diaz Varela, 21, had few prospects when he graduated from Narbonne High School in Lomita, Calif. The father made a meager living doing odd jobs and fixing cars. They lived in a trailer park. "There weren't many other options, so he enlisted," Sergio Diaz Sr. says.

A DREAM DENIED

His son told relatives that someday he hoped to have a well-paid job in the States, as a full-fledged citizen. Then, he said, he wanted to buy his mother a house in Mexico. That dream ended last Thanksgiving in Iraq, when a roadside bomb in Ramadi killed him.

In December, he was buried in Mexico, outside Guadalajara. At first, his mother did not want the American flag draped over the coffin, but she relented under pressure from relatives.

Fonseca, too, had deep roots in Mexico, returning every summer. His father says his son had good grades in high school and could have gone to college but chose a military career instead. His goal was to become an intelligence officer.

"I'm proud of my son," his father says, "because even though he did not accomplish everything he wanted, it was still one of his dreams to belong to the Army."

Having gone to the U.S. as a toddler, Jesus Fonseca felt as much a part of the community in Marietta, Ga., where his family had settled, as he did part of Degollado, their hometown in Mexico. But it was during one of his summers in Degollado that he met his 18-year-old wife. After the war, they hoped to get citizenship and settle in Colorado.

Fonseca's Mexican grandmother fought back tears when asked whether she supported the war that had taken her grandson's life. "I don't know about politics," she says. "I can only say that it's a sad thing to see so many dead."

James C. McKinley Jr. In Mexico

This article is adapted from Friedman's book, "The World is Flat: A Brief History of the 21st Century," and his recent columns.

James C. McKinley is a correspondent in The Times's Mexico City bureau.

http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/6.pdf

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=129667