Christians: are you telling me you believe in things that are not supported with scripture?

Question

Regarding my previous question:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070606063502AATacxO&r=w

I note no one provided scripture to support a claim that your god does not throw non-christian babies into the Lake of Fire.

So whatever claims were made, there is no scripture to support them.

Am I to believe you are inventing Christian doctrine to suit your own preferences?

Am I to believe -you- are the authority on what Christians should believe?

And when you and the bible disagree, I should listen to you, and not the bible?

There is not one word in the bible that tells me your god will not throw my dead, five-year-old autistic son into the Lake of Fire. Not one word. Regardless of what you may want to believe, is it not the bible that defines Christianity?

As Revelations 21:8 clearly states, the "unbelieving" are tossed into the Lake of Fire. There are no exceptions made for babies, or people who don't know right from wrong.

Why do you say otherwise?

Neither Isa. 7:15; Mt. 18:3; or 1 Cor. 14:20 makes a claim that children or the mentally handicapped go to heaven.

Again, if there was -any- scripture to support such a belief, the Catholic Church would certainly have said so.

Who wants to tell anyone that babies are condemned to the Lake of Fire?

Answer 1

I'm not exactly Christian, but I don't think you're going to find anyone out there that will try to tell you that such a child would be damned. Most Christians, when attempting to answer why the child was born with such a condition in the first place, would say something about God. And no Christian holds to the idea that God would doom anyone from the beginning, because it simply doesn't fit with the idea of a being that is infinitely good.

Christians have tried to answer the question of the pagans for a long time. Answers I heard or read said something about them not being damned if they'd never heard the Word, etc., because they couldn't be blamed for that, and that they would be judged on whether or not the Word of God was "written on their hearts" - - that is, whether they were good people. The news was not so good for those pagans who'd heard the preacher's message but refused it (assuming the person understood it in the first place and knew what it was that they were refusing).

On their face, these beliefs seem designed to allow and encourage a person to follow Christianity by not offending some of their core moral beliefs about the worth of all human beings, while at the same time attempting to lure them into the fold for the greater good of the religion (and the person's soul, according to Christians). The Bible can't account for every possibility - it didn't predict computers, for example. But you can believe computers are real.

Please don't rely on what is or isn't in one book to guide your entire life. As good as that book may be, a life just shouldn't be that limited.

Answer 2

You don’t have to worry about the babies. As Catholics, we believe they are going to be fine. It’s like a baby that dies in a car wreck – we believe they will be in God’s mercy and love and go to heave.

You asked for a scripture proving this. I can’t give you one off-hand because I’m not well versed in scripture, but I can explain it this way.

You stated: “As Revelations 21:8 clearly states, the "unbelieving" are tossed into the Lake of Fire. There are no exceptions made for babies, or people who don't know right from wrong.” Let’s look at this.

What does it mean for someone to be “unbelieving”? A few factors come into play here.

An unbeliever is a person who was presented with certain beliefs and/or teachings and does not accept them. In this case, we’re talking about religion. For the acceptance or rejection happen in the first place, the person must have the ability/be mature enough to understand what is being presented, and be able to make the choice to accept or reject it on their own.

As this shows, babies, the handicapped, etc, do not fit these criteria. Neither has the ability to understand religious beliefs, nor be taught. Therefore, how can they accept or reject something that they don’t have the ability to grasp in the first place? Without that ability, there is no unbelief, therefore, they cannot be considered “unbelievers”. Make sense?

That being the case, we know that God will take mercy on them and lovingly take them into His arms. How fair would it be for God to judge a baby on the same level as He would judge you or me?

God bless.

Answer 3

You almost sound as if you want your passed away 5 year old autistic son to go to hell. The fact that the Catholic church dropped the Limbo concept, which was extra-biblical anyway (unless theres a suggestion of it in the Old Testament Apocrypha, I don't know), doesn't meant they think children go to hell.

Even preachers like George Whitfield in the 18C, who were very strict about God's Judgement remaining on people rejecting Christ, accepted that kids (most certainly at 5) will go to heaven. Having said that I've heard of a few very young children, of normal abilities, of that age, understanding and responding to the gospel, just as us adults can.

Actually we are meant to read the whole Word. The fact that Christ preached to the dead, according to 1 Peter, offering them salvation, indicates that God intends everyone to have a fair chance .. so it would be completely out of character to condemn someone who finds thinking logically desperately hard. Most able-minded adults in the West though have been well exposed to the gospel, so I would doubt they will have a second chance after physical death; they will be offered 100s of chances here on Earth though.

Answer 4

I am not privy to your prior communication and don't need to be.

About the lake of fire, let's take a brief look at it:
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Revelation 20:14-15 and death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15And if any one was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. (Darby)
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This is just a brief look that may be expanded if such is desired by others!

First off, are death, and hades people or conditions of people? These two words refer to the same thing, the condition of people. These people are shown in Job to be asleep in Sheol which = Hades = Death.

See the Sheol and Judgment Page here:
http://bythebible.page.tl/Judgment-%26-Sheol.htm

From this we may understand, as it states that when the dead are 'let out' of these virtual places they become empty and cease to exist. Fire is used in the Bible to denote destruction!

That these inanimate conditions are thrown into this Lake of Fire together with "any one was not found written in the book of life" then refers not to torment but rather to complete destruction. As is what happened to death and Hades and Sheol when they were emptied since at the point of being totally empty they no longer existed being virtual in the beginning.

There is much proof to be presented, but this medium is too small, and only if requested will I undertake the work of creating a new page on bythebible regarding this subject.

Already, the Judgment and Sheol page and also the condition of the dead[ one, specifically discusses the condition of the dead and the wicked.
Another page, Rev 20:11-15 discusses the points about in regard to those in the book of life.

http://bythebible.page.tl/Rev-20-d-11_15.htm

Answer 5

ALL of Revelation is symbolic of something else. John used the Old Testament references to write the book of Revelation.

Referring to Rev 21:8 as you did:

There are very, very few mortals who do not fit into one of the categories of abominations John has outlined in this verse. In each sin, John has presented figurative equivalents as the opposition of Christ’s teachings:

...
The “unbelieving” who see mortality as their only beginning and end, and want to make the best of it (according to their fleshly lusts and desires) before they die, care little for others or the earth on which they live. However, these “unbelievers” also include those who believe in God, but judge others, condemn others’ lifestyles and beliefs, and in many other ways violate the Royal Law:

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:15–16)

You can also learn what the "fearful," "murders," "whoremongers," "sorcerers," "idolaters," and "liars" all represent on pages 442-43 of the book referenced below.

It may not be what you think.

The book explains every single verse of Revelation plain as plain can be. You can read it for free from the site below:

Answer 6

I believe that the Bible does not tell us everything - but it tells us everything we need to know for a godly life. There are some details God has chosen to keep hidden from us. In those areas, we rely on trusting God's character.

That sentiment is expressed in "Trust His Heart" by Babbie Mason.

All things work for our good
Though sometimes we can't see how they could
Struggles that break our hearts in two
Sometimes blind us to the truth
Our Father knows what's best for us
His ways are not our own
So when your pathway grows dim
And you just can't see Him
Remember you're never alone

God is too wise to be mistaken
God is too good to be unkind
So when you don't understand
Don't see His plan
When you can't trace His hand
Trust His heart

He sees the master plan
He holds the future in His hands
So don't live as those who have no hope
All our hope is found in Him
We see the present clearly
But He sees the first and the last
And like a tapestry He's weaving you and me
To someday be just like Him

God is too wise to be mistaken
God is too good to be unkind
So when you don't understand
When you don't see His plan
When you can't trace His hand
Trust His heart

He alone is faithful and true
He alone knows what is best for you

Answer 7

deuteronomy 1:39 speaks about children who do not know the difference between good and evil. When their parents were punished in Deuteronomy for not having faith in god the children were nott punished b/c they could not distinguish good from evil.

Also Isa 7:16 says that there is a time in a childs life that they do not know to choose between good and evil.

To believe, repent, and fully understand salvation takes intellectual and volitional abilities, which is something and young child or mentally disabled person wouldnt have.

Answer 8

Are you a christian? if so, you should know what is written in the bible, nothing is said about babies but men that will be judged according to their deeds. I don't know God's mind so i can't say much.God knows us better than any man, he is the one who wrote the bible why don't you ask him, he is as close as your breath all you have to do is open yourself to him by prayer.Whoever told you otherwise than what's in the bible that person is serving the wrong God and does not know much about christianity.Not all who say are christians know Jesus.

Answer 9

To know what God does, you have to know God.

I believe God knows us before we are even born.

Psalm 139
13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to [b] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.


Jeremiah 1

5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."


God is a loving and faithful God.

I don't want to sound uncaring about your feelings, but God is always drawing us to Him.
How do you know what your son truly believed in his heart?

I'm sure God can communicate with autistic children.

But I don't think you should be on here accusing God of something you don't know.

To be honest with you only God can answer this question.
Start a relationship with Him through Jesus Christ and believe me He will reveal to you what you want to know.

Answer 10

Spend some time in the O.T. before even looking for prooftexts in the N.T.Things like Abraham's Bosom and the like.I certainly won't waste my time for someone looking to deride and reject truth.I'll offer up prooftexts and long answers for those seeking the truth.Your venom speaks volumes of you mindset.