Fish gurus ONLY please...?

Question

Ok guys, I want to kill two birds with one stone... Some of you may remember my question from the other day, and we came to the conlusion that my tank is still building its biological filter... (its only 2 weeks old, and i lost a fish in my 38 gallon tank.) I took a sample to the pet store and they told me my water was between stressful and harmful with the levels of ammonia. My nitrites and nitrates were fine. I have scheduled another water change for Thurs. since my last... only 15%. So, my first question is should i let nature take its course and keep building the filter to break down ammonia, or should i use Ammo Lock, which detoxifies it.. or a similar tablet called Ammonia Buddy? And if I'm to use no chemical, will it be "survival of the fittest" for my fish? I figure if I get enough of the same answer, then I'll know the solution. Also, I have a Violet Goby, will these chemicals affect it?
I will be adding 1 more question in my "Additional details." PLEASE WAIT TO POST!

Also, I've noticed a few spots on my Mickey Moust Platy, that weren't there last night. I've been needing to add more Aquarium Salt, will that fix the problem? If I add Ich Fix, that will harm my Goby I know. What should I do about her?

That's all, and thank you for your time, thoughtful responses, and helping my with my new found hobby.

Already different opinions, see what I'm talking about?

I LOVE YAHOO ANSWERS, lol, and i do have a 2.5 gallon "isolation tank"... will my fish be fine if i notice no ich, or should i treat them anyway? how long should i leave them there? rite now, its only the platy.

Answer 1

To part 1 Jon, under no circumstances do you add ammo lock or amquel or any of that crap. You do just like you said, you let nature take it's course. You just have to be a little patient here and it's going to save you so many head aches down the road doing so. The biggest thing to understand here is adding that chit is going to throw off your real readings of what is in your water. I know this by experience and watching the liquid reagent testings. All it does is move it into ionized form and does not remove it from your water. Please just don't add in stuff to your tank and let your bacteria build up as needed. Just be patient and in a few more weeks, you'll have a settled down stable tank.

on part 2 with your ick problem. Salt will help the fish in recovery and overall health, but it is not a total treatment regimine. You're going to have to treat that with medication and the sticky issue here is where. If you treat him in your tank that is cycling, should this be your choice, you need to take out your chemical filtration component, which is usually activated carbon. Some treatments are anti biotic meaning they destroy bacteria, and they do not differentiate in what they go after. Meaning the possible problem of not isolating that sick fish is you'll wipe out your bacteria you already have. You need to balance this with the possibility that all the other fish got infected as well. If you have a seperate tank I think it's well worth your time to isolate it into a treatment tank and cure them there.

JV

Answer 2

Your basic issue with your tank is that your tank hasn't cycled yet.
http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php

You should really get a ammonia, and nitrite test kit. When you have more than 3 ppm of either start doing 30% water changes until it's below that. Adding ammolock and the like is a short term solution as it will prevent your tank from developing a biological filter.

The ich/ick problem is common when you are adding new fish and the fish in the tank are stressed by ammonia/nitrites. The problem with ich is that you don't have a fish with ich. You have a tank with ich. You need to treat the tank. Removing fish with obvious signs of ich isn't enough. Ich meds like copper treatment shouldn't effect the gobby, or your filter. (It will kill snails, shrimp, and the like.)

Salt it something to consider in your tank. The Goby is a low brackish fish. It will do best with a fair amount of salt. The real question is can the rest of the tank take large amounts of salt. Most fish shouldn't have more than 1 teaspoon per 5 gallon. Livebearers like platy, and swordtail do great in brackish water, while molly, and guppy can live in salt water. Ideally for an all livebearer, and goby tank I'd say at least 1 teaspoon per gallon. Also a little salt helps with nitrite toxicity which will happen once the ammonia eating bacteria population grows.


Also salt will effect ich and even kill ich, but you need lots of it. Most fish can't take the amount of salt need to kill off ich. If it's just the platy in the tank. Start putting 1 teaspoon of salt (table salt works just fine) an hour predisolved in a cup of tank water. (Feel free to skip an hour or 8.) Go until you hit 5-10 teaspoons of salt in the tank. Once the platy recovers you'll need to replace the salty water with fresh water gradually by changing 20-30% of the water 3-4 times. Fast change kills.

Answer 3

15% water change will do absolutely nothing. Your tank is just beginning to cycle since you said no nitrites yet. DO NOT add anything to the water or filter to remove ammonia. DO NOT add Quick Cure for ick, it will kill the biological filter, even in the most established aquariums. The best and only way to remove ammonia is to do BIG water changes 50 to 75%, don't be scared, the ammonia will kill, fresh water is better. This is what you should do for now about the cycling tank. Get the test kits for yourself, you need to test the water daily at this point. You want ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Check the ph to see exactly what it is. Check the ammonia, if its 1ppm or higher change 50-75% of the water, make sure to declorinate and keep temperature exactly the same (within 4 degrees is ok but no more than that). Keep this up for the first few weeks, you will have to change out a lot of water to keep the fish safe. Do the same when nitrites get 1ppm. There will be a time when both toxins are present at once, continue water changing, until you consistantly get no ammonia and no nitrites. Then you should see the end result of nitAtes. When there is no ammonia, no nitrites and some nitrates you can say the cycle has completed and the water is now safe. Nitrates must be maintained under 20 ppm from then on out. Ammonia and nitrite should never be a problem. DO NOT clean the filter until the tank has cycled, only change the water for now. If it takes 6 weeks to cycle make sure you do replace carbon in the filter but nothing else. DO NOT for any reason attempt to use zeolite or white carbon to remove ammonia UNLESS you 1. have not used ANY salt in the system 2. Remove it after a day or two. That is if you just have to use something to get the ammonia down. It is not a permanent fix to the ammonia problem and it locks the cycle down and prolongs the time it takes to cycle. What I'm saying is if you use any of that stuff it will take twice as long or at the very worst case the tank may never cycle with that stuff in there. Its for emergencies only and is totally temporary. I would only use it if you test the water and the ammonia is sky high and there is no way you can get to a water change that day then I would leave it in the filter until the water change, the next day or so. Remove it and keep it out as much as possible. It doesn't pay off to go the "easy way" on this one. You must change that water and there is no way around it.
About ick. Ick life cycle lasts anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks depending on water temperature. That means from egg to adult is usally two weeks. So a 2 day Quick Cure treatment will not work. You can't use any of that stuff for 2 weeks it will kill the fish and completely destroy the filter bacteria. Ick can't live in water above 82 degrees and ick cannot tolerate salt. Salt is not harmful to your beneficial bacteria what-so ever. Here's what you can do to cure ick, if you have salt tolerant fish.
1 table spoon of non iodized rock salt (kosher, ice cream salt) per gallon. Raise the heat to 83. Leave fish for 2 weeks. IF you make a water change at this time replace it with salted water of same concentration. DO NOT use zeolite and salt (too much to go into please trust me). When 2 weeks is up change water to fresh and don't use salt anymore in a fresh water tank. Lower the temp no more than 2 degrees per day until you reach a nice temp like 78. Keep it there from then on.
I hope this sheds a little light on your situation. You need a good aquarium manual. There are also places on line to find out information if you are money impared. (like me)

Answer 4

Can't help you with the 2nd question, but as for your first question.. Sounds like your tank is on it's way to getting cycled... I'd just keep up on the water changes and let nature take it's course. I would definitely do more than a 15% water change though. When I cycled my first tank I did 40% water changes twice a week and didn't lose any fish. It took about 5 weeks to completely cycle. Also, you should DEFINITELY invest in a water testing kit. For around $30 you can get a kit that will test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Well worth the investment.

Answer 5

Never use amo-lock or none of those chemicals because you'll end up with a less stable tank and will have to start the cycling all over so keep on doing regular water changes and continue monitoring the ammonia levels and if they get to a really high level, your best choice would be to change about half of the water in the tank. Your platy should be placed in a another tank and treated with any medications there.

Answer 6

Adding chemicals to cycle a tank is a bad idea - usually ineffective, and also causes stress to the fish. The only cycling addition that is commonly regarded as the "best" by hobbyists is called Bio-Spira. It can be found in the refrigerated sections of your local fish store. It runs about $15 per package, give or take, and contains live bacteria needed to cycle the tank. It's about the fastest way I know to fix the problem now that you've prematurely added livestock.

As to the ich problem, ich occurs in poor water conditions, which you definitely have. Definitely QT the affected fish and you can use IchAway to treat - be sure to remove any carbon in your filtration system first. A lot of hobbyists don't like using ich medication for any number of reasons, but I personally do use it in the rare case in my tanks. Another option that many aquarists use is to raise the temperature of the tank to 83-85 degrees and treat with salt. This basically speeds up the life cycle of the parasite, causing it to fall off the fish and then die in the salted water instead of breeding and continuing to contaminate the water. Your preference, really.

Answer 7

Check your local fish store for bio-spiro. This is a living bacteria that can create your 2 part biological filter practically overnight (50% of the time for me anyhow). If you're already registering high levels of ammonia, you don't even have the first part of your bio-filter growing so it may take a little longer. If you go this route, do a 1/3 water change first. Add the bacteria and wait 24 hours before doing another water change (if necessary).

My ich treatment: Raise your aquarium's temp to 82F. Add another 25% to the recommended salt , so perhaps a tablespoon and a half per 5 gallons. Works for me almost every time, but be cautious with scaleless fish, as they usually do not do well with salt.

Answer 8

As Jon says, continue the water change regime, on the white spot problem as he says don't use a treatment at this stage it is detrimental to the filter, turn your temperature up to 84/86f area and wait it out, I've no idea what a violet goby is though, so I'm unsure of the temperatures this fish will take, the platie will take it for a short period. Don't add anymore fish now for a couple of weeks you need to ensure that the white spot has gone altogether.


AJ

Answer 9

Its to bad ya didn't wait for the tank water to age before adding fish. Don't know where you live that your water has such a high ammonia level. Hope you don't drink it.

I aways use bottled water in my tanks. Either drinking or spring water. I have never had any water problems. When adding new water OR fish I always use Start Fresh. Every time.

Get a real good aquarium book. One that has lots of info about fish and aquarium set ups. Also about diseases and fungus. It will be invaluable to you in the future. You need to build up healthy bacteria in the new tank for it to become balanced. I sometimes use goldfish or Mollies for a newly set up tank. They are pretty hardy and are cheap to replace. If you already have Ick, I would through the fish out. Or if ya don't want to do that, put it into a "sick" tank and treat it. Don't add any more fish! Are you regulating the light it gets and what is your tank temp? Turn it up around 78-80 degrees for a week and just let the filter and water go to work. Every time you change the water, you have to start over with your bacteria build up. Just leave it alone for a bit.