Why do GW skeptics keep making this "ideal climate" argument?

Question

GW skeptics keep asking "how do we know this is the ideal climate?", suggesting that climate change isn't a big deal because we don't know what the perfect global climate should be.

First off, nobody is suggesting this is the "ideal climate". What is suggested is that humans shouldn't alter the global climate drastically.

Secondly, if we do alter it drastically we can predict the effects. For example, global warming can cause droughts, floods, heat waves, super hurricanes, huge sea level rises, etc. etc.

Thirdly, the species on this planet (including humans) are adapted to the current climate. Obviously if the climate changes drastically, it will adversely effect most species, including humans. Many species which are less adaptable than humans will be particularly badly effected.

This "ideal climate" argument clearly doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so why do global warming skeptics keep bringing it up? Did Rush Limbaugh just talk about it or something?

Drastic temperature change = rapid and several degrees Centigrade.

We're already hotter than the MWP and temperatures continue to increase.

To be honest, I'm mainly asking these "GW skeptics" questions as a future reference. That way the next time someone brings up the "ideal climate" argument I can simply link back to this question rather than having to debunk it over and over again.

I certainly don't expect to get a valid reason for why they continue to bring up these bogus points, though I'm certainly open to one if someone can come up with a good explanation. Llike maybe there's some brilliant study that debunks human-made global warming that nobody has heard about!

Answer 1

You've been using Answers for a while now so you'll have noticed that the arguments some skeptics use are constantly changing. The notion of an ideal climate is just the latest in a long line of arguments they've used.

Six months ago this forum was full of skeptics saying the world was cooling, then it changed to the world isn't warming, now it's changed to the world is warming but it's not down to humans. In a few months it will no doubt be something else.

The inconsistancy in their arguments does nothing but illustrate that they have no validity. A valid argument stands the test of time and doubtless you'll also have noticed that the arguments put forward to substantiate anthropogenic global warming are the same ones - no need to go looking for anything else because the evidence is already there and stands up to scrutiny.

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To Nickolassc: I know what scientists do - I am one, I've looked at all sides of the global warming argument including several hundred claims that are supposed to disprove AGW, none of which stand up to scrutiny.

If science is wrong it doesn't just pull another argument out of the hat. It analyses what was wrong, where mistakes were made, re-evaluates the evidence, obtains further data, develops new methodologies, looks at things from a different perspective, brings other people on board etc etc. Have the skeptics ever done that when they've been shown to be wrong? Are you trying to tell me that arguments referencing 'ideal climate' are the results of scientific process? If so, then the skeptics have an even more skewed idea as to science than I previously thought.

Answer 2

I have never heard of the argument of which you speak. I Don't think Rush or any other right (correct) thinking person would claim that we are in an ideal climate situation. Informed people just stick to the facts. Which by the way are that 25 years ago hysteria about global cooling was being created by the same group of people. That humans produce less than 2% of the CO2 that gets emmited. That the person leading the charge on "GW" uses 30 times the amount of electricity as the average joe. I don't know anyone who would say that "GW" doesnt exist. Its a natural occurance the earth warms and then it cools. Did dinasaurs and cavemen cause the Ice Age, perhaps they should have polluted more. Get informed is all I can really tell ya. And by the way I have changed my lightbulbs and drive a fuel effecient car. Why?
It effects my pocketbook.

Answer 3

IDEAL CLIMATES

When we start recycling skeptics for compost we will get our ideal climate soon enough ,at least here on the Air .

oops it Monday morning

1 degree change in global temperature ,causes 10% crop loss,and effects bacterial growth or the bugs ,everything else follows that .

people keep saying the changes are small ,sure but in a global perspective it adds up and the effects are something else if you are in the middle ,
1 cm raise in the sea level may not sound very much
but if your land is flooded it is enough for you.
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Imagine walking in a tropical rain forest ,you can go naked , the air is easy to breathe and every after noon the whole place gets wet.
As is does in the morning, All in all it is a paradise type environment perfectly comfortable if you are not in a buggy place .The nights as well as the days are bearable ,just about an ideal climate .
you thoughts turn to relaxing and looking for Eve
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Now in the same place take the forest away ,
All of it ,
Now the air is so hot and dry you can hardly breathe ,Unless you are covered from head to toe ,your body get burned in no time ,you become dehydrated ,you cant see clear anymore ,the Suns glare is blinding you ,your feet are so hot from the hot ground you cant stand in one place .
Sweat pours out of your body ,but nowhere is water for relief ,your lips crack open and start to bleed .
In the night your burned body is tormented by freezing cold .the sweat in your hair freezes.
your thoughts turn to death and hope that when the morning come with the heat may arive divine help from above ,
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This scenario has happened all over this planet and it is increasing, bigger teritories are subjected to desertification every day ,and all of the former inhabitants are not even memories any more .

collectively because there is so much of it ,the global precipitation is affected and so is the climate ,irrispective of polution ,carbon emisions ,Al Gore ,All the skeptics in the world ,Americans burning leaves ,what ever

If there are enough fires in a place its gonna get hot ,

Personally I´d rather be lying naked under a tree drinking home brew and getting ready for the Eve.

Answer 4

What is your definition of drastic temperature change? The earth has only warmed by about .7 degrees in the last century and we still aren't sure how much of that was due to man-kind and how much was natural.

Also from what we know about previous warmer periods than now is that life flourished in these warm periods. Look at the medieval warm period where life flourished.

Also take a look at the Holocene period.

EDIT:
Notice how my answer dealt with the actual question, and the people who disagree with my assertion seek to discredit through insults instead of using science to back up their claims?

@Trevor
The goal of science is to always ask questions and if YOU'RE theory can't stand the test of time perhaps you should change it, just like we do. That's what science is all about. True science admits when its wrong and looks for another explanation.

Answer 5

I think it's because it's been warmer and very few of the bad things now predicted happened - - the only one was the drought in what is now the US Southwest.

That one's not a good argument - - - the MWP was great for agriculture in Europe, and in North America the population was nomadic - - the tribes that followed the buffalo just followed them northward to grasslands that had once been frozen over for most of the year.

You can't do that now.

It's going to be good for some, bad for others, noticeable for some, not noticeable for others, and most of us can't just move.

All of which is a reason to "do something to stop it" only if we're "doing something" that is a proximate cause of it, which remains unproven.

We're not already hotter than the MWP, yes we have been through that.

Answer 6

How is 1/3 of 1% 'drastic'?

And I don't abandon my arguments, I simply supplement them. If you want to go back to the truth that GW enthusiasts used to proclaim Global Cooling, I can do that, too.

Answer 7

because, like usual, skeptics tend to over-look and ignore facts that do not fit into their views.
Like the simple fact that species that have not recently evolved are going extinct from climate change. this does not suggest ideal climate.

Answer 8

Because they know they are outgunned in the intelligence arena. It's a temper tantrum, like when you tell your toddler to go to their room and they get all smartypants on you and say something like "I LIKE it in my room". The anti GW crowd sounds more like this:

Mommy:
"Now Johnny, you can't tow your giant speedboat to the lake behind your Hummer every weekend because you're burning 300 gallons of gas every month, and pretty soon the world is going to be too hot and the oceans will rise."

Little Johnny:
"But mommmmmie, I don't WANNA drive a Prius. I feel wimpy when I drive a Prius, it doesn't stroke my 5-year-old ego enough. Those cars are for WIMPS"

Mommy:
"Johnny, its getting hot, and the oceans are rising"

*Little tyke starts stamping his feet*
" I LIKE warm weather and flooded cities. I WANNA DRIVE MY HUMMER , MOMMY!!! YOU CAN'T TAKE IT AWAY!!!! IT'S MINE!!!"

Answer 9

It gives them some sort of hope that the position they have been holding on to is not well and truly bankrupt.

It is false hope, but they will grab any straw they can.