Jacob wrestled with God.?

Question

The Old Testament teaches that Jacob wrestled with God. In fact, the Old Testament records that Jacob not only wrestled with God, but that Jacob prevailed (Genesis 32:24-30). Now, bear in mind, we’re talking about a tiny blob of protoplasm wrestling the Creator of a universe 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles in diameter, containing over a billion galaxies of which ours—the Milky Way Galaxy—is just one (and a small one, at that), and prevailing? I’m sorry, but someone was a couple pages short of a codex when they scribed that passage. The point is, however, that this passage leaves us in a quandary. We either have to question the Jewish concept of God or accept their explanation that “God” does not mean “God” in the above verses, but rather it means either an angel or a man (which, in essence, means the Old Testament is not to be trusted). In fact, this textual difficulty has become so problematic that more recent Bibles have tried to cover it up by changing the translation from “God” to “man.” What they cannot change, however, is the foundational scripture from which the Jewish Bible is translated, and this continues to read “God.”

Answer 1

Religious scholars have long attributed the tenets of Christian faith more to Paul’s teachings than to those of Jesus. But as much as I would like to jump into that subject, I think it best to back up and take a quick, speculative look at the Old Testament.

The Old Testament teaches that Jacob wrestled with God. In fact, the Old Testament records that Jacob not only wrestled with God, but that Jacob prevailed (Genesis 32:24-30). Now, bear in mind, we’re talking about a tiny blob of protoplasm wrestling the Creator of a universe 240,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles in diameter, containing over a billion galaxies of which ours—the Milky Way Galaxy—is just one (and a small one, at that), and prevailing? I’m sorry, but someone was a couple pages short of a codex when they scribed that passage. The point is, however, that this passage leaves us in a quandary. We either have to question the Jewish concept of God or accept their explanation that “God” does not mean “God” in the above verses, but rather it means either an angel or a man (which, in essence, means the Old Testament is not to be trusted). In fact, this textual difficulty has become so problematic that more recent Bibles have tried to cover it up by changing the translation from “God” to “man.” What they cannot change, however, is the foundational scripture from which the Jewish Bible is translated, and this continues to read “God.”

Unreliability is a recurring problem in the Old Testament, the most prominent example being the confusion between God and Satan! II Samuel 24:1 reads:

“Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, ‘Go, number Israel and Judah.’”

However, I Chronicles 21:1 states: “Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel.”

Uhhh, which was it? The Lord, or Satan? Both verses describe the same event in history, but one speaks of God and the other of Satan. There is a slight (like, total) difference.

Christians would like to believe that the New Testament is free of such difficulties, but they are sadly deceived. In fact, there are so many contradictions that authors have devoted books to this subject. For example, Matthew 2:14 and Luke 2:39 differ over whether Jesus’ family fled to Egypt or Nazareth. Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4 differ over the wording of the “Lord’s Prayer.” Matthew 11:13-14, 17:11-13 and John 1:21 disagree over whether or not John the Baptist was Elijah.

Things get worse when we enter the arena of the alleged crucifixion: Who carried the cross—Simon (Luke 23:26, Matthew 27:32, Mark 15:21) or Jesus (John 19:17)? Was Jesus dressed in a scarlet robe (Matthew 27:28) or a purple robe (John 19:2)? Did the Roman soldiers put gall (Matthew 27:34) or myrrh (Mark 15:23) in his wine? Was Jesus crucified before the third hour (Mark 15:25) or after the sixth hour (John 19:14-15)? Did Jesus ascend the first day (Luke 23:43) or not (John 20:17)? Were Jesus’ last words, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit my spirit’” (Luke 23:46), or were they “It is finished” (John 19:30)?

These are only a few of a long list of scriptural inconsistencies, and they underscore the difficulty in trusting the New Testament as scripture. Nonetheless, there are those who do trust their salvation to the New Testament, and it is these Christians who need to answer the question, “Where is the ‘Christ’ in ‘Christianity?’ “This, in fact, is a supremely fair question. On one hand we have a religion named after Jesus Christ, but on the other hand the tenets of orthodox Christianity, which is to say Trinitarian Christianity, contradict virtually everything he taught.

I know, I know—those of you who aren’t screaming “Heretic!” are gathering firewood and planting a stake. But wait. Put down the high-powered rifle and listen. Trinitarian Christianity claims to base its doctrines on a combination of Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings. The problem is, these teachings are anything but complementary. In fact, they contradict one another.

Take some examples: Jesus taught Old Testament Law; Paul negated it. Jesus preached orthodox Jewish creed; Paul preached mysteries of faith. Jesus spoke of accountability; Paul proposed justification by faith. Jesus described himself as an ethnic prophet; Paul defined him as a universal prophet.[1] Jesus taught prayer to God, Paul set Jesus up as intercessor. Jesus taught divine unity, Pauline theologians constructed the Trinity.

For these reasons, many scholars consider Paul the main corrupter of Apostolic Christianity and Jesus’ teachings. Many early Christian sects held this view as well, including the second-century Christian sects known as “adoptionists”– “In particular, they considered Paul, one of the most prominent authors of our New Testament, to be an arch-heretic rather than an apostle.”[2]

Lehmann contributes:

“What Paul proclaimed as ‘Christianity’ was sheer heresy which could not be based on the Jewish or Essene faith, or on the teaching of Rabbi Jesus. But, as Schonfield says, ‘The Pauline heresy became the foundation of Christian orthodoxy and the legitimate church was disowned as heretical.’ … Paul did something that Rabbi Jesus never did and refused to do. He extended God’s promise of salvation to the Gentiles; he abolished the law of Moses, and he prevented direct access to God by introducing an intermediary.”[3]

Bart D. Ehrman, perhaps the most authoritative living scholar of textual criticism, comments:

“Paul’s view was not universally accepted or, one might argue, even widely accepted …. Even more striking, Paul’s own letters indicate that there were outspoken, sincere, and active Christian leaders who vehemently disagreed with him on this score and considered Paul’s views to be a corruption of the true message of Christ …. One should always bear in mind that in this very letter of Galatians Paul indicates that he confronted Peter over just such issues (Gal. 2:11-14). He disagreed, that is, even with Jesus’ closest disciple on the matter.”[4]

Commenting on the views of some early Christians in the Pseudo-Clementine literature, Ehrman wrote:

“Paul has corrupted the true faith based on a brief vision, which he has doubtless misconstrued. Paul is thus the enemy of the apostles, not the chief of them. He is outside the true faith, a heretic to be banned, not an apostle to be followed.”[5]

Answer 2

A related passage elsewhere in the Old Testament (I can't remember where off the top of my head) states that Jacob actually wrestled with an "angel", so Jacob wrestled with God by proxy only (as in, an angel represents God, so if you fight God's messenger, then you are in effect fighting God).

Besides, the implication here is that the angel deliberately let Jacob win by taking a dive. God didn't want Jacob to get hurt, much like when a human father "loses" a wrestling match to his five year old son.

----edit--
BTW, in response to the first poster who noted the difference between II Samuel 24 and I Chronicles 21:1 (was it God OR Satan that motivated David) why doesn’t anyone realize that this is NOT a contradiction, as the Old Testament is full of examples of God ordering, or manipulating Satan into doing God’s will? (1 Kings 22:6-28; Job 2:2-9). No one has yet given a logical reason why it can’t be BOTH, as the passage in 1 Kings shows.

Answer 3

Alee I am so glad you asked this question. Not only does it mean that Jacob wrestled with God(angel) but the scriptures also swears that no man has seen God at ANY time!-John1:18...
But yet Abraham talked with Jehovah God face to face in Gen18:13...
Jesus carried the title of Jehovah in the old testament and this even puzzled the jews back then but the true believers trusted God's words and ways. In the new testament Jesus even mentions that he physically appeared as Jehovah and communed with some of the earlier Patriarchs and that is precisely why the jews wanted to stone Him. They said 'We know your whole family and you are not even 40 years old your claim is blasphemy'.
But here again my friend is a very good lesson in being careful how you examine God's wisdom.
God was building the connection to his triune diety even in those days! Listen to this startling statement in Genesis23:21 God the father warned Moses to carefully obey the Angel that moves in the cloud as their protector. God said "Because My name is IN this Angel".
The scriptures say Jesus has always been in exact sync with His Father. There is perfect harmony within the Godhead itself.
You see It all does makes sense. As far as Jacob is concerned he said he would not let the angel go until the Angel blessed him the Angel(God)could have easily beaten Jacob. God was just demonstrating to Jacob that he Jacob should be stubborn and proactive in his persuit for blessings from the Lord. To sum up. No man has seen God the (Father) at any time but God the(Son)they have seen concluded in John1:18...

Answer 4

Or you can think of it this way. God being all powerful allowed Jacob to get the best of Him, but then touched his hip to prove a point that He could take Jacob at anytime, but He had chosen not too until he dislocated jacob's hip. God was showing Jacob that even though He was strong, He was still in control of everything. Jacob was going back to his birthright. The promise God had granted Him. Why because He had a heart towards God. But if He was out of God's will he could be taken out.

Answer 5

If a person is looking for an excuse to attack the Bible, the passage you quote could be excellent fodder.
On the other hand, it doesn't have to be.
In truth, Jacob fought with an angel.
Angels are spoken of as 'god-like' since they are of the same substance, form and nature ....not human.
Since the angel was representing God, it could be said Jacob contended with God.
Jacob might refer to this person as a man since, when angels materialize, they always appear to be as men.
And 'yes', the angel could have easily overcome Jacob.
However, the point was not to see who was stronger.
The point was to see a demonstration of Jacob's earnestness.
It doesn't have to be a problem.

Answer 6

It was a traditional belief that seeing good would cause a person to die, but that is not biblical, the bible only says that people believed that not that it was the case.Many different Ideas on the wrestling with God thing, I believe it was Jesus, he is the word and timeless, and is basically the physical form that God shows to man to represent him, he is more than that but that is the jist,

Answer 7

Oh come on. Everyone knows that wrestling matches are fixed. God will get him in the rematch. They are just trying to get the right price out of ESPN for the television rights.


What surprises me is he fact that God had to stop at dawn. This omnipresent being needed to be somewhere else perhaps? Or does his power fade when exposed under the reality of sunlight?

Answer 8

Jacob wrestled with an angel of G-d, not with G-d.
The OT can only be truly understood when read in the original Hebrew.

Answer 9

Well I could interpret this in a curious way.
Jacob wrestled with the belief in God and he won, meaning that he, being himself and free from stupid dogmatic imaginary friends and doctrines won.

It's contradictory in many verses. Sometimes it says God is above all of this. Sometime he comes to Earth to wesrtle men and give advice on necklaces while a village is burning behind him.

Answer 10

the Bible does not say that Jacob wrestled with God It clearly says that he wrestled with a man!!!
recheck your sources!
all the Bible is to be trusted!!!

Answer 11

i learned that Jacob wrestled with a spirit or an angel, some even say a demon, but i doubt a demon. & yes he did win.