McDojo..Qualified teachers???

Question

I don't think that a person that is certified by a "real organization" is automatically a good /real instructor.
Many WTF/ITF TKD teachers open McDojos. My instructors that I studied with in Taiwan and Mainland China did not belong to any organization, yet were more competent. Any comments? Most of my classes were free........

Answer 1

Most McDojos are franchises or at least under license these days, so they all follow the same business plan which includes qualified instructors.

There are some safety certifications that I think are important, like first aid and CPR. But, anyone with the capital can "Elvis" their way into a black belt so I don't give much credit to that system.

I like Taiwan as Eva has their main hub there in Taipei. But, I don't know if they have the same sort of "old schools" there as Mainland China and the SAR regions. In those schools the master really is the master of the training center which is his house. The students live with him and work as servants in exchange for their training which covers every area of their lives. You can be a paying guest if invited but the master will still get some work out of you. This sort of teacher doesn't need certifications because his lifestyle if evident, but I they seem to still display every award they ever earned in my experience.

Answer 2

Always make sure they were taught by a real person.Anyone can get a certificate from an online organization for a fee and worse the will probably be video trained.Especially in the USA watch out for instructors that want to get you into a contract right away or gurantee a black belt in 2 - 3 years.Also if they are all about flash and bashing other arts and have few senior students these ar MCDOJO signs.Hope this helps

Answer 3

Ok.

There is a difference between bieng a "mcdojo" and bieng a crappy teacher.

One can learn something at a mcdojo, although I doubt many would argue that it would be more efficient, better trained, and less costly to learn it elsewhere.

The term "Mcdojo" simply refers to the promotional techniques and policies of the school compared with its attitude in teaching quality training to its students.

In short: If you care more about promoting your image and marketing than providing quality training you are a mcdojo.

If your school markets and is an advertising beast, but provides good solid quality training, you are not a mcdojo.

However if the training is secondary then get your Mcgi on and lets do some Mc point sparring.

One can however learn something at a mcdojo, but generally the level of training is not as good because the focus is not as good.

Like a carpenter that doesn't take pride in thier work and just does an "adequate" job but charges high fees.

Just because one belongs to an organization doesn't automatically mean that it is a mcdojo, however it is possible that the organization is pushing this kind of thing for money (ie: ATA).

Answer 4

Amen. Certification by an Organization is often the least important quality to a good teacher. (sensei) It's better to do some research, and observe on your own, listen to the instructor, then choose. Wanting some Organization to tell you who is a quality instructor and who is not is like wanting your mom to fill out your college applications for you. It's irresponsible, and ultimately, bad for you.
McDojos are the biggest cancer to the America Martial Arts community. These "blackbelt academies" aim to please their customers, instead of training real martial artists. TKD is not the only community by far infected by this, there are even a few (not many) Isshinryu McDojos! Usually the more popular a style, the more likely a McDojo will open. The Jiu Jitsu community is now experiencing this problem, because of the popularity UFC has brought to their style.

Answer 5

I started first Judo in the mid 60s, and then karate in 1972 and belonged to a number of traditional organizations until I went independent in 1986. Some of those organizations that I left later made offers of high rank promotion when I was competing in the 90s. Of course they expected my studio and students to join along with me and there would be membership fees and testing fees for them to pay to those organizations and that organization could use my name and my reputation in competition to further their own ends.

Organizations are only as good as the people running them and that are in them. Unfortunately some of them are only for the top people or the head guy and a vehicle for him to make money. Others that are stricter and more sincere are not always willing to make sacrifices for their art like they should and meet everyone's needs or can meet everyone's needs especially if they have their headquarters halfway around the world.

If you belong to a good one and it works for you and meets your needs thats great. On the other hand I learned a long time ago that it is my skills and abilities that should speak for me and that matter to my students and what I can teach them-not what organization I am affilated with. Also with the commercialization of martial arts over the last 30 years many organizations, schools and instructors promote to quickly, don't set high enough standards or enforce them, and are too interested in making a buck and are partly responsible for having turned out many of the McDojo teachers and schools that you see today.

Answer 6

There are qualified instructors who choose the McDojo route for financial reasons. Just because an instructor has proper credientials does not necessarilly mean that he/she is following their policies. There are many who, while excellent Martial Artists, are not good teachers. I don't know the situation in Taiwan, but if the certification is questionable, the quality is not likely to be as good.

Answer 7

I agree completely. I've been to schools who advertise that "All Classes Taught By Certified Instructors!" Certified by who??? Like John Doe walking off the street would know anything about martial arts associations or would care. They only care that the teachers are competent, skilled, patient, and compassionate. That piece of paper? Big deal.

I trained at a school that was part of one of the largest associations here in the US. When I became a Black Belt I inquired about becoming certified as an instructor. What was I told? Write a check for $150 to the head of the association. I got back a fancy-looking wall plaque and I was "certified."

I then trained under a different master, who'd broken away from that association. How did instructors become certified under him? Well, we had to attend a two-hour seminar and hold current First Aid and CPR certifications. Better, but still nothing related to martial arts competence or working with a student.

If one of our students asks about becoming an instructor, we invite these students to assist under one of our senior instructors. That's regular assisting, including arriving early and clearing after class, AND interacting with the parents of the students. If they show competence after assisting observed (never earlier than six months), they can then serve as teaching assistants -- assisting in a class without a mentor. Upon reaching the rank of Black Belt, they are then invited to a leadership camp -- a long weekend of reviewing basic skills, breaking up into groups to "teach" each other those skills, going over customer service, a lot of role playing by putting instructor candidates in different scenarios, you name it. A written test must be passed as well as a practical exam. Candidates must also have up to date First Aid and CPR certs. And THEN if they pass, they have a probational certification under which they lead a class with a mentor (senior instructor) on the sidelines for three months. After then, their performance is reviewed and then they become instructors.

But that's only us, and yes, a lot of McDojos will grant anyone who is a high Gup/Kyu rank the right to teach. Sad... which is why so many look down on the traditional arts.

Answer 8

it depends on which organization certified him. Some don't certify teachers unless they continuously attend instructors courses and keep close tabs on the quality of the classes.

However, I do agree, there are to many McDojos with 'qualified' teachers who are mostly not very good. It helps if you know which organizations are less corrupt, but it can be hard to find without any leads.

Answer 9

There are a lot of low-quality students out there, who fit right in at a McDojo. If you are serious, you may want to seek a better dojo, or try to find the best instructors at one of those dojos to give you instruction. But for 75% of students, they are looking for something interesting to on the side and are just there for the experience--and in the case of kids and teens their class is somewhere between a babysitter and an athletic team--it's just an activity to them. For those students, the McDojo is just for them.

Don't judge the McDojo operator too harshly. You may find better instruction from someone who isn't spending their time building a business, but that really isn't guaranteed. And cramming as many students into you dojo as possible is the only way to really make money--a teacher that limits himself to serious students and never gives his beginning classes to a rookie instructor is going to be struggling to keep his doors open. It stinks that money problems would come into play, but they do. If you find yourself at one of those places, the student must keep his instructors on track--he must make sure he is still in the right lesson for his level and training needs. But finding someone who gives quality instruction for free--that's luck most of us don't have.

Or think of it another way--an instructor makes a company that provides lessons to 200 people, twenty of whom are serious students. Instead of choosing between charging those twenty students what he is worth or giving away his lessons at a discount to them, he takes the money of the 180 who aren't serious and will take classes with a less qualified instructor, so he has time for his twenty students and doesn't have to worry about where the rent is coming from.

Answer 10

I only trust what I experience for myself. Anyone can get a certificate since some organizations require only money for their rank.